Really need help. Stressing. Ebay Debt Collectors from Chargeback

848timings

Hi guys,
Hope all is well. I will try to keep this brief. I sold a lovely antique camera in March 2020; quite unbelievably, the seller had claimed it hadn't arrived and we tussled back an forth about it arriving. I maintained it had been delivered and, despite the buyer opening two paypal claims stating 'they hadn't authorised the transaction' of £450, Paypal clearly knew they had as they had messages I sent in. They thus sided with me.
To my horror, I find out last month that they opened a chargeback and Paypal have sided with them and have now passed the debt over to a ARC debt recovery. I haven't done anything wrong, but I'm being told I owe £500.

I spoke to the agency and they said I should get a fraud crime ref number from action fraud. I really can't afford to pay this amount at this time from a transaction that happened so long ago. The buyer has obviously just tried the last resort they can to get the money back.

Is there anything I can do? Do I need to seek alternative advice or what can I do to stop this? I really appreciate any responses. It seems that if a buyer simply wants to chargeback then they can. I note that they paid by family and friends through Facebook marketplace, so it seems that a chargeback is all they could do. It is surely my words against theirs?

Appreciate any help!
 

soolin

So was this this was a friends and family payment and what cases were opened and closed on paypal?

I have heard of chargebacks before on a friends and family payment which cannot be defended - but only via a bank, so am confused at what other cases were potentially opened as nothing else would be possible.

848timings

Thanks for quick reply!
First case: buyer said that they didn't authorise transaction way back. Paypal immediately sided with me and closed this.
With this one closed, I assume the buyer submitted a chargeback with the bank. All I know is that Paypal have now sided with them. And, as such, are now chasing me.

848timings

So, effectively, the buyer has just decided that they will lodge a chargeback and then Paypal have now sided with them. Do I have any recourse here? It's an absolute scandal that they can just pull the money back like this.

RFW

First, all the debt collector can do is ask you for payment. They have no authority to do anything else and it is not affecting your credit rating. You can also ask that the debt collector doesn't contact you by phone or email, if I remember right they are then allowed to contact you by mail. They or Paypal can only do anything more if they take you to court, that's usually unlikely and you get a chance to put your case.

Next part, do you have proof of delivery? That seems to be the only criteria the buyer has had a refund. Also go to Action Fraud.

With a crime number and proof of delivery you can then get back in touch with Paypal and ask them to stop their debt collectors and refund the account. That may not work as it's a friends and family payment.
Please don't take my advice on this but in my opinion the worst that can happen if you don't pay is that you won't be able to use your Paypal account again.

soolin

RFW said:

First, all the debt collector can do is ask you for payment. They have no authority to do anything else and it is not affecting your credit rating. You can also ask that the debt collector doesn't contact you by phone or email, if I remember right they are then allowed to contact you by mail. They or Paypal can only do anything more if they take you to court, that's usually unlikely and you get a chance to put your case.

Next part, do you have proof of delivery? That seems to be the only criteria the buyer has had a refund. Also go to Action Fraud.

With a crime number and proof of delivery you can then get back in touch with Paypal and ask them to stop their debt collectors and refund the account. That may not work as it's a friends and family payment.
Please don't take my advice on this but in my opinion the worst that can happen if you don't pay is that you won't be able to use your Paypal account again.

I’m not sure even proof of delivery will help here, but like you I am not clear as a chargeback for fraud is very rare on PayPal . I did find this on a link from a PayPal forum
https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Managing-Risk-and-Fraud/Can-people-charge-back-friends-and-family-2018/td-p/1526313

which suggests a chargeback for fraud made on a F and F payment cannot be defended by the seller at all, and there are several other forums and threads that suggest that is the case. In fact the last time we had this on a thread here on MSE it made a lot of sellers sit back and take note of how vulnerable an f and f payment made them. If this was a normal payment then the chargeback is easily defended with proof of postage (occasionally PayPal will accept proof of delivery instead). However that cannot work here as buyer supplies no address with a gift payment and there are no associated goods. The buyer is charging back a gift, so any proof of postage, shipping delivery etc has nothing to do with the claim, since buyer bought nothing there is no proof of delivery needed. 

After the last thread about this we did start warning about the use of F and F payments from a seller point of view. Obviously a buyer claiming fraud is very rare, even with my normal PayPal sales I get only one a year, maybe 2 on a bad year. The real issue here is that the money will almost certainly have gone via a payment pulled from PayPal So the bank don’t really have any involvement as as far as the bank is concerned they just see PayPal come and take the money and have no way of knowing what it was for. Then PayPal have no interest really, the bank pulls back the money and PayPal retrieve it from the seller .

I agree though That if OP is able to avoid the debt collectors then as far as I am aware I have never seen any instance of PayPal going to court. However OP, you will need to take RFWs advice and check what powers debt collectors have, and be prepared to be harassed for a couple of years. Again as per RFW your PayPal account is now lost, as is that of anyone PayPal consider connected to you .