BBC - House prices dip 1.1% in November

tonydee

abaxas wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7128308.stm

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Note, this is not a house price crash tread! Don't shoot the messenger

Nationwide stated 0.8% drop

They also stated a 1.1% increase the previous month so I think Lypsey will have along long wait to see the 40-50% drop

Romani_Ite_Domum

pinkshoes wrote: »

I think more realistically house prices will stand still rather than fall

The Op was drawing attention to the fact they have fallen.

pinkshoes wrote: »

If they do drop, then I guess if I want or need to move, I'll rent my flat out rather than selling it, and either buy something else, or rent. I know others who also plan to do the same.

Do you/they have enough equity in your house(s) that you will be able to buy another one when prices fall?

pinkshoes wrote: »

If prices drop and many end up with negative equity, then rather than selling their house, they'll rent it out, then rent elsewhere. Could this lead to a shortage of properties on the market? (other than new houses being built)

Why would it? The effect would be neutral.

Gorgeous_George

MABLE wrote: »

... The market has been so long dominated by these buy to let parasites. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than see these people go under.

A house should be regarded as a home and not something to sell every 5 minutes to make a quick buck...

My BTL is a home. A home for my tenant who chooses to rent rather than buy for financial and lifestyle reasons.

You have the mindset of a terrorist.

GG

MidTwentySomthing

Rugged toast, I have to say your above toast was excellent and well informed.

If it sounds too simple it usually is.

carpetbelly

ruggedtoast wrote: »

It is not normal for a private individual to have access to geared investments. If anything in this situation they are being used as a proxy as the investment is sold off through CDO's (Collateral Debt Obligations) , with the investor and whoever has bought the securities taking the risk. This is not normal and never has been and has resulted in the credit crunch.

You're trying to say something that's become reasonabily commonplace (and that could be contrued as being normal nowadays) isn't normal because it never used to be. Products evolve, technology evolves, peoples understanding evolves, what's classed as normal evolves.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

A right is a human construct that has to be negotiated, actually the UN considers the right to shelter a basic human right.

Yes, a right to shelter. You don't have to own said shelter.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

There is nowhere else in the G7 where people earning an average wage for their country are unable to obtain suitable long term shelter to have a family.

I know plenty of people on below average wages who've been able to obtain long term shelter, whether it's long term renting, shared ownership or another way. There are ways to get long term shelter if you're on an average wage. Saying you're unable to is either an outright lie or you're talking about outright ownership (which is still false) and are misinformed.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

For a variety of reasons which is all too painfully obvious for anyone who has to use private landlords in the UK, especially the BTL idiots you seem to love so much, renting in the UK is not an acceptable substitute to buying a family home to live in long term.

You must be reading that textbook you seem to think I have and coming to different conclusion to me as you're coming up with statements that are laughable.
BTL idiots, I'd like to see the part where I have said I love them or even hinted at that. I'm 28, I was homeless from 15. I've had to use private landlords since I was 16. I've lived with my young family in private rented accomodation for a good few years and was nice and stable there. A few bad experiences does not make the norm.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

You dont seem to understand how the current situation has arisen. Its nothing to do with being fair.

I apologise then, your previous statements to me seemed like you were saying it was unfair.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Its about an essential commodity being inflated out of peoples reach by speculative investors funded through credit with no adequate state sponsored alternative.

Yes, I've already agreed it's essential to have shelter. I disagree though that you still feel it's everyones right to own said shelter. I'm not saying that the state is right to not have an alternative either.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

House prices are over valued BECAUSE of cheap credit. Cheap credit does not exist in response to house prices.

Actually, it's a bit of both. Banks either chase profit or market share generally when it comes to mortgages, lately a lot of banks have been pursuing market share and as such offer cheap credit at minimal margins. To not pursure market share for the last few years has not been the way to go as HBOS showed recently when they upped their mortgage rates before this crunch hit and their market share took a beating because of it even though it was strictly the right thing to do pricing wise.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I dont wish to be rude but I have to laugh as well. You seem to have based your entire economic and social theory on a GCSE General Studies textbook.

Well, you are being rude quite frankly but as you're someone I do not know and I have no knowledge of your background I quite frankly couldn't care. I have my opinion and you have yours. We obviously differ. I can accept that we differ and quite happily get on with having a good discussion with you without being insulting. You on the other hand seem to feel the need to get insulting about it. Each to their own as I always like to say.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Renting long term IS quite acceptable on the continent because renting there is a totally different proposition. i.e. European tenants have rights that are unimaginable to someone on an AST in Britain, where we see renting as something which exists entirely to make money for landlords, and the tenant as an inconvenience.

Well, renting long term in this country is quite practical. But oh my, might require you to do some looking around to find a perfectly good landlord/property. Too many people are happy to go headfirst into a property without checking this out. If they do then so be it.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Straight from that good old general studies text book again isnt it? Prices are fixed by demand intersected with the ability to pay. This is a totally different paradigm to the commonly held assumption of supply and demand, and unfortunately, one that Mortgage lenders and G. Brown understand only too well.

Again, to the insults. Saying that, I appreciate the fact it's just not a swearing match and you've at least been intelligent and mildly amusing with it. You talk about the ability to pay. Ok, shall we focus on that for a moment. You've talked about subprime, 100%, people who have overstretched themselves to get onto the ladder. Who's fault is it that they cannot afford this? Have they been forced to buy? Have they been forced to take out mortgages that are more than they can realistically afford? When do people take some responsability for their actions.

geoffky

tonydee wrote: »

Nationwide stated 0.8% drop

They also stated a 1.1% increase the previous month so I think Lypsey will have along long wait to see the 40-50% drop

you dont really have a lot going for you do you ,if you understood you would find out they each measure the rises and falls differently.ie the use different models......hope you now know a little bit more about it...lesson over

ruggedtoast

I think thats probably enough of the cut and paste rebuttals now from me Carpetbelly as they can go on forever.

I'm glad you felt safe and secure in your rented accommodation.

Actually under an AST (which the vast majority of people have) you have no right to make modifications to your property to suit your family no matter how long you live there, you have next to no rights concerning rent increases, and the landlord can give you make you homeless with 2 months notice at any time they see fit. Even if you manage to find somewhere else nearby so your kids dont have to change schools and doctors its far from ideal. I dont really see why you approve of it so much.

I appreciate you had a tough time being homeless and renting however, in another thread you just said that you're a - presumably recent - buyer. I suggest this has more to do with your enthusiastic support of a housing system that quite honestly stinks like a 3 day old dead dog, than that you really believe in it.

I hope you can afford your mortgage and I hope your family doesnt lose money on their home but Ill never accept this obscene transference of wealth for crippling debt that has, in the blink of an unquestioning eye, been accepted as normal.

carpetbelly

Very true, cutting and pasting rebuttals can go on forever... Oh my, I feel light headed, we agreed on something

I can confirm that it took me a long time to find a property that I did feel safe and secure in (renting wise). And yes, not all those properties felt like homes. I must be lucky as I ended up handing in my notice in on pretty much all the properties I've been a tennant in and not the other way round.

I'm also not saying I approve of the system. I'm saying that's what the system has evolved into. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying it's what we have to live with and thus get on with. It's far from perfect.

Yes, I had a rough time homeless. I've had equally a rough time renting and yes, I am a recent FTB. I bought in early June to be more precise. Again, you're misreading what I am writing to be support of a system that's evolved to be in place. I am not a supporter of it but I do not hate it either. It's something that has come to pass through circumstances. The system is not inherently evil or greedy, people are. The system does not force people to overstretch themselves without taking into account what the consequences will be. People seem very quick to blame something else without looking at themselves (not pointing fingers at you here, just a general 'themselves') for taking on too much.

I can afford my mortgage, I can afford it even if I went onto the current SVR and I feel I stretched myself enough for my property. You say you hope my family doesn't lose money on our home, I do appreciate this statement but I feel this is where we see things rather differently. I do not care if I lose money on my home, this is my home. I purchased it at a price I am more than happy with, I could easily see myself here till the mortgage is paid off. I would only lose money then if I ever decided to sell which is a different matter.

I do agree house prices are obscene. I'd have no issue if they dropped now as I am in this for the long term and am happy with the price I paid for my home. I just do not feel they will drop significantly myself. Different people come up with different conclusions.

I must say I do rather enjoy such debates as these, so many thanks for the banter in between meetings for me today.

JonnyBravo

geoffky wrote: »

you dont really have a lot going for you do you ,if you understood you would find out they each measure the rises and falls differently.ie the use different models......hope you now know a little bit more about it...lesson over

A little more just about covers it, you've hardly given them any useful information and hardly in a non-judgmental or "no silly questions" kind of manner.

Perhaps you are a little frustrated with your life (?) but what is certainly true for me is that your condescending attitude to anyone who disagrees with you is tiresome

manic_saver

MABLE wrote: »

Well I think it is about time. How on earth are first time buyers ever going to have the chance to buy their first home. The market has been so long dominated by these buy to let parasites. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than see these people go under.

A house should be regarded as a home and not something to sell every 5 minutes to make a quick buck.

Now the first time buyers will have something to rejoyce about.

I totally agree with you there. Me and my girlfriend bought a flat 2 years ago with a struggle of buying it. But previous to that we did look at say 50+ houses and two thirds were property developers. This really gets my goat when there are genuine people out there trying to buy a property for a home and are not looking for profit. The property market has blown out of proportion, and its good to see house prices falling, that way the housing market can be levelled out. It does make me sick to see some house programs on C4 or other, to see one person making a 20 grand profit within a couple of months (it takes me a bloody year to make that in my job). :mad: