Can’t find an IFA to advise on DB transfer because on increased PII and sub £100k pot!

Jeffmusicals

By way of an update, Pensionhelp were unable to assist as they felt my reason for us taking the pot wasn’t appropriate... feels a little judgemental to me when surely it’s personal to us and what we feel appropriate at the time. I can’t express the disappointment I feel at being judged as though this was our only retirement option as though it was a 40 year DB scheme. It’s 5 and a half years and as I have said previously, surplus to requirements. If I said I wanted to provide my kids with a deposit for a house now, rather than risk the pot going to the state should the worst happen, is that more morally acceptable? Should it really be this difficult to find someone who can view the transfer objectively without taking the simple morale high ground that it “ is never a good idea to contract out of a DB scheme”. Very frustrated and don’t  know where to turn. You can understand why some people get pushed into the hands of more unscrupulous advisers. 

dunstonh

By way of an update, Pensionhelp were unable to assist as they felt my reason for us taking the pot wasn’t appropriate... feels a little judgemental to me when surely it’s personal to us and what we feel appropriate at the time.

An adviser is there to advise.  If they feel it is inappropriate then they are required to say so.  Even if its not what you want to hear.

If I said I wanted to provide my kids with a deposit for a house now, rather than risk the pot going to the state should the worst happen, is that more morally acceptable?

What makes you think it goes to the state?

Should it really be this difficult to find someone who can view the transfer objectively without taking the simple morale high ground that it “ is never a good idea to contract out of a DB scheme”. 

 Your wife has limited provision and you want to take a good chunk of what she has into an overseas property.   The net amount of what she would get from it is insufficient to buy a property. So, there must be other money available to make up the difference unless you are getting a mortgage.  So, you would be increasing your costbase whilst reducing your wife's income.

Your wife's pension would not be immaterial to her if you were to die before her.

Very frustrated and don’t  know where to turn. You can understand why some people get pushed into the hands of more unscrupulous advisers. 

You used to see it with mortgage advisers.  The good ones would tell someone they couldn't get a mortgage.  The bad ones would get that person a mortgage but use self cert or even fake documents, such as payslips.  The borrower though the good broker as bad and the bad broker was good.  Until years later when they found what they did was wrong and left them in financial trouble.   And this is basically the scenario the FCA is trying to avoid with pension transfers.  It can take decades before you find out what you did was wrong.

xylophone

You keep referring to the pension as though it were yours - it is your wife's pension and it is  her situation that will be considered by any adviser.

https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/pension-transfer/advice-what-expect

For the Trustees of the Natwest scheme to agree her transfer out, they will require a statement in the form they prescribe that she has obtained the necessary advice from a Pension Transfer Specialist. They do not need to know whether the advice was positive or negative.

That said, a negative recommendation restricts her choice of receiving scheme - see my previous post and read the links.

Malthusian

By way of an update, Pensionhelp were unable to assist as they felt my reason for us taking the pot wasn’t appropriate... feels a little judgemental to me when surely it’s personal to us and what we feel appropriate at the time.

They're advisers, judgment is what you pay them for. Current laws require you to get a judgment from a regulated adviser before you cash in a defined benefit scheme worth more than £30k, which does not have to be a positive judgment.

Out of interest, what is the actual pension entitlement? You refer to "Current options" but as she is 55 this sounds as if it would include hefty early retirement penalties.

Selectively looking at a DB pension in the worst possible light (i.e. including heavy retirement penalties) instead of its true value (the pension at normal retirement age with no penalties) is what people do when they have pound signs in their eyes. People who are looking at things in the worst possible light find it harder to get an adviser to rubber-stamp their DB transfer, because they are more likely to do it again in several years' time, and put in a complaint for compo.

Albermarle

Understandable that you feel frustrated . The tightening of the rules to avoid some of the disasters of the past ( NHS, British Steel ) catches everybody .
On the other hand to be positive many people would take your right arm off for a DB pension.
rather than risk the pot going to the state should the worst happen, is that more morally acceptable?

The state is not involved . People who die early in DB schemes , help to fund those who live a long time . It is like insurance , some pay premiums all their life and never claim and some get a big payout. 
It is completely morally acceptable .

MallyGirl

"On the other hand to be positive many people would take your right arm off for a DB pension."
True on the whole but, like OP, mine is only going to pay me less than 2 grand a year and it would be nicer to have it just part of my SIPP. If it was 20 grand it would be a different story. 

Jeffmusicals

 Your wife has limited provision and you want to take a good chunk of what she has into an overseas property.   The net amount of what she would get from it is insufficient to buy a property. So, there must be other money available to make up the difference unless you are getting a mortgage. So, you would be increasing your costbase whilst reducing your wife's income 

Nope! It would cover the cost. You’d be amazed at what you can get in certain parts of France! And don’t forget, adding to our asset base and reducing the cost of future holidays allowing me to plough money into my current employers scheme with the tax benefits of a higher rate payer. Again, there are often different ways to look at things and it often isn’t as black and white as you think..

Your wife's pension would not be immaterial to her if you were to die before her. 

Well.....again the very limited pension would probably pale into insignificance given my 8 x salary life cover, mortgage paid, additional £200k life cover, my 15 year “frozen” DB scheme with great widows benefits and my current DC scheme benefits. So it would, in all honesty, be immaterial...

  The good ones would tell someone they couldn't get a mortgage.  The bad ones would get that person a mortgage but use self cert or even fake documents, such as payslips.  The borrower though the good broker as bad and the bad broker was good.  Until years later when they found what they did was wrong and left them in financial trouble. 

Again, not all of them were. Some gave a essential service to people who may have not got onto the property ladder. I have many friends who obtained self-certs and are now mortgage free with not a whiff of a compensation claim. Broad brushstrokes are just that....

Jeffmusicals

You keep referring to the pension as though it were yours - it is your wife's pension and it is  her situation that will be considered by any adviser.

Take your point Xylophone. We have joint finances and always have. No separate accounts etc. and make decisions jointly; it just so happens I’m the one with the iPad and she’s the one with a dream of a house in France 🙂

For the Trustees of the Natwest scheme to agree her transfer out, they will require a statement in the form they prescribe that she has obtained the necessary advice from a Pension Transfer Specialist. They do not need to know whether the advice was positive or negative.

That said, a negative recommendation restricts her choice of receiving scheme - see my previous post and read the links.

Understood and that was very helpful advice. I’ve looked on some other suggested forums and it’s clear there arent many places who will accept a DB transfer without a positive recommendation but I’m looking!

Jeffmusicals

The state is not involved . People who die early in DB schemes , help to fund those who live a long time . It is like insurance , some pay premiums all their life and never claim and some get a big payout. 
It is completely morally acceptable

My mistake, sorry. I meant not going to my children. And whilst I note previous comments that “ the pension money isn’t yours, it’s held in trust”, well the Pension reforms don’t support that in my view.

Jeffmusicals

Out of interest, what is the actual pension entitlement? You refer to "Current options" but as she is 55 this sounds as if it would include hefty early retirement penalties.

A good question Malthusian! Struggling to get people to look at it for the reasons mentioned! Maybe I’m giving too much away at the first conversation. Happy to put a redacted copy on here if you think it would help? I understand this isn’t about giving advice but it may give me different perspective? I’m not sure if that’s allowed or not?