Initial Parking - Seel Street, Liverpool

magicamerica · 3 October 2020 at 11:32AM

Have just received a PCN from a company called Initial Parking for Seel Street, Liverpool for not paying to park. The thing is that I had signed up for an automatic payment company called Good2Go a couple of years ago, so you don't pay on the ground. A quick Google search suggests the car park operator has changed from ParkingEye, but there was no warning signs going into the car park.... I had no idea of the change of company from. Where do I stand on this? I imagine they would argue the signage was clear, but I do not check the signs as I had no reason at all to imagine the companies would change and that my payment method would suddenly become invalid. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Redx · 3 October 2020 at 11:47AM

Download the BPA CoP and read what it says about a change of contractor and new signs including temporary signs warnin about the new rules and options

Then read the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum

Do plan A to start with

Also check if the NTK PCN complied with POFA

Then appeal as keeper using the blue text template from the newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum , as long as it's your name on the V5C log book

No blabbing about who was driving

D_P_Dance · 3 October 2020 at 1:05PM

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, sometimes it can lead to cancellation.,

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, and darfts have beenopened for publc consulatation,

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these companies, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, under new legislation but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/

Please also read these and have your say

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

You do not need to register to comment on the enforcement framework which can be found here. It has a link on page 5 to make comments.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/913272/Code_Enforcement_Framework_consultation.pdf

magicamerica · 3 October 2020 at 5:01PM

Thanks for your respones - will look into the suggestions in the next day or so. Are there any examples of this outfit actually taking anyone to court? I will naturally appeal, but fully expect them to carry on asking for payment.

Umkomaas · 3 October 2020 at 5:21PM

magicamerica said:

Thanks for your respones - will look into the suggestions in the next day or so. Are there any examples of this outfit actually taking anyone to court? I will naturally appeal, but fully expect them to carry on asking for payment.

No court cases in 2019 (latest figures available), but these are new kids on the block, jumping in on the opportunity to lever money out of unsuspecting motorists - only incorporated in January 2019.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11760551

(I think all directors are linked as former Smart Parking employees. Doing a thorough Google search on their names and SP produces some interesting reading! They all seem partial to a good lunch. At least one was previously employed by ParkingEye. I wonder whether PE are off loading less than profitable sites to Initial (and others to CPP). Sorry OP, none of my rambling above helps you, but your thread triggered my investigative (and conspiracy theorist) instincts! Regulars, if they don't already know, might be interested, however.)

Initial have 6 years to pursue via litigation, and as an unknown quantity, we have no idea how they might develop.

Coupon-mad · 3 October 2020 at 11:25PM

No worries about PPCs trying court. Honestly they are terrible at it.

Try a POPLA appeal proving the payment and pointing out a breach of the BPA CoP about 'changes' to enforcement at a site. And of course using all the other template stuff from post #3 of the NEWBIES thread about how to try to win at POPLA.

MORE URGENTLY = Please do THIS (deadline approaching in a week or so):

Please now make a real difference because not enough people have yet, and time is running out.

The Government is consulting for just a few more days, about a new statutory code of practice (CoP) and framework intended to rein in the rogue parking firms.

Does it go far enough? Read and comment on the draft CoP proposal and the enforcement framework consultation (two separate consultation documents).

HOW TO DO THE SUBMISSIONS:

BSI PAS 232 – COMMENTING ON THE CODE OF PRACTICE AS DRAFTED:

1. You will need to register then log in, to comment on the CoP and enter an occupation even if you are retired or a homemaker.

2. Register, log into the BSI page, and download & read the cover letter here:

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

3. Read the cover letter again and note the suggested extra questions... if you agree that, say, the 'loading/unloading and dropping off, asking for directions, and disabled people parking on double yellows as they can on street' activities listed should be exempt (not parking events, what do you think?) then please go to the Annexes at the end of the PAS Code and find the one about Exempt Vehicles and state what other activity you think should be added to the exempt list.

4. Download the PAS itself and start commenting on what you wish to say something about. Quick links to each section appear on the left of your page.

You don’t have to comment on everything, e.g. you might want to skip the definitions and focus on later sections, and certainly look at the Annex tables at the end that show things like consideration & grace periods and exemptions.

5. Submit comments when you are happy with them. Don’t just ‘SAVE’ and forget!

THAT IS HALF THE JOB DONE!

THE MHCLG CONSULTATION IS EASIER AS IT IS JUST A LIST OF QUESTIONS.

6. You can do it first if preferred or pushed for time:

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=EGg0v32c3kOociSi7zmVqAVPfAOtwRxLhHRwQ610oElUMzhQSVo0WUQ4SERVSEZaUU9DTUhFQ1VMUy4u

If your answers exceed 4000 characters (approx. 500 words to a single question or 16000 words (approx. 2500 words) for all the questions below, you can email your answers to parking@communities.gov.uk as long as you state who you are.

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS YOU WILL SEE, FOR RESPONSES TO THE FRAMEWORK:

Q1 Do you agree or disagree that members of APAs should be required to use a single appeals service appointed by the Secretary of State?

Strongly agree/Somewhat agree/Neither agree nor disagree/Somewhat disagree/Strongly disagree

Q1.1 Please explain your answer

(free text)

Q2 Please provide any other feedback on the determination of appeals, including the funding model and features that an appeal service should offer e.g. telephone or in-person hearings, the ability to submit evidence online

(free text)

Q3 Please provide any comments you have on the proposal to enforce the Code by combining the ATA’s existing audit procedures with additional safeguards.

(free text)

Q4 Please outline any alternative means by which the Code could be monitored and enforced. You may wish to cite evidence from other regulatory frameworks which are relevant.

(free text)

Q5 Please provide any feedback you have on the proposed governance arrangements for monitoring the new Code of Practice

(free text)

Q6 Which parking charge system is most appropriate for private parking?

a) the Three-tiered system

b) Mirroring the Local Authority system

(free text)

Q6.1 Please explain your answer. You may, for example, wish to make reference to other deterrent frameworks (for example, for railway tickets or traffic violations)

(free text)

Q7 What level of discount is appropriate:

40% as is currently offered in private parking and suggested in the three-tiered system, or

50% as is offered in Local Authority parking?

a) 40%

b) 50%

Q7.1 Please explain your answer, including whether the discount should be set at a different level

(free text)

Q8 How should the level of parking charges be set and how should the levels be revised in future?

(free text)

Q9 Do you agree or disagree in principle with the idea of the Appeals Charter?

Agree/Disagree

Q9.1 Please explain your answer

(free text)

Q10 Do you agree or not that the examples given in the Appeals Charter are fair and appropriate? Agree/Disagree

Q10.1 Please explain your answer.

You may wish, for example, to suggest additional cases to be covered in an Appeals Charter or query existing examples.

(free text)

Q11 Do you agree or disagree that the parking industry should contribute towards the cost of the regulation?

Agree/Disagree

Q11.1 Please explain your answer.

(free text)

YOU CAN INSTEAD GIVE MORE CONCISE ANSWERS ONLINE, USING THE MHCLG PAGE LINK.

Don’t forget that answering these questions is the easier bit…

Looking at the BSI PAS (the draft code of practice itself) involves logging in and submitting comments again, and again and again and takes more time!

There is a discussion about PAS submissions and what the pages look like, here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6195417/am-i-doing-something-wrong/p1