POPLA rejection on basis of questionable date of my photographic evidence - advice

cstephen67

Hi all, 2 years ago I successfully appealed to POPLA against an (invisible) disabled space sign, using photos of what the driver could see.  During lockdown I received a PCN for stopping for 18 minutes on a hard standing opposite a police station which I needed to visit, which I didn't even realise was part of a carpark - at the far end was a 2-storey visible car park.  I went back & took photos in July showing there was no visible signage on "entry" for the driver, nor visible notices of how to pay/ conditions of use, and submitted these in my appeal.  The only ticket machine is apparently in a neighbouring Holiday Inn which was locked down, and I mentioned that in my appeal too.   The landowner sent a map of large number of signage points dated Feb 19, which were very hard to find when I returned.  I got this rejected explanation: 
"The site map, provided by the operator, shows that there are 2 separate levels to this car park. There is only one entrance and exit point and a sign is placed at both the entrance and exit advising that parking tariffs apply. Further, I am also satisfied that there are numerous other signs displayed within the car park itself. The appellant has submitted their own images of the site signage. From the images, it shows that when entering, the sign on the left is facing a different direction, and not facing the driver. Further images show that there are no clear signs within the site itself. However, after reviewing the images, I am unable to determine when these were taken. The images are not date or time stamped and so, I cannot be certain that this was around the date of the event. The operator’s images are date stamped 27 February 2019 therefore, I must conclude that these signs are still situated at this site and I am satisfied that they are spread evenly throughout. The images also show that ticket machines are on site. I am satisfied that the signs comply with the requirements of the BPA code of practice. 
To me, the assessor seems to think my photos might predate the Feb 19 photos, which is mystifying as clearly I only took them since receiving the PCN and POPLA appeal pack.  I have read all the Newbie thread but am terrified of waiting this one out & risking some big court fees against me.  I read in the moneysavingexpert article that at this stage,it may count against you if you your appeal was rejected.   What would you do if you were me?  Pay up (£100!) or chance trying to explain to a human that clearly I provided timely evidence that the signage was inadequate when I parked.... 

Redx

no idea why you are terrified, its not as if GODZILLA is on your tail !

a typical loss in court is about £200 , before a judge, nothing to be terrified about

the pictures will have metadata embedded so popla should have checked them, otherwise it means you have to have the time and date embedded when you took the pictures

a judge will accept your sworn statement about them , but its Judge BINGO in court

if you think you have a good case, let a judge decide

which parking company ?

Le_Kirk

I read in the moneysavingexpert article that at this stage, it may count against you if you your appeal was rejected.

Can you point to that article please? For the avoidance of doubt, POPLA appeals and their outcome are not binding on the motorist. 

cstephen67

@Le_Kirk I don't seem to be allowed to post links!
"It's worth noting that the court may take your previous appeal rejection into account, so a win may be harder."
Article is under Reclaims, by Megan French, it was edited 27th August 2019
Thx Caroline

cstephen67

@Redx Thanks for your empathy lol
Regarding the time & date, well it shows on my phone where & when I was when I took the pictures (actually 6th August) so perhaps I should write to the parking company again telling them that I will show that if they take me to court, hoping that they won't!
Why am I terrified?  I'm law abiding, I've never been anywhere near a court in my whole life, the risks of saying the wrong thing in the wrong way seem high, as you say who knows how a judge will view your situation and again reading around the various threads and articles, the risk appears to be that you end up with a fine of up £400 for court costs plus the £100 fine.... threats of debt collectors/ CCJ/ credit rating... call me old fashioned but who needs all that in their life???  
Thx C

cstephen67

Sorry @Redx, my case is against Parking Eye Ltd.  Thx

Redx

A loss against parking eye in a civil court is £175 , not £400 , it's the £100 charge plus £75 in legal and court costs , it's small claims court , not trying to get Trump to pay his taxes !

And nobody broke the law so you are still law abiding , you have received an invoice from a private company , no different than receiving a £100 table from IKEA and being expected to pay for it after delivery , or owing a landlord one week's rent

Don't make it out to be more than it is , plus thousands of people like you have been to civil court and they were not sent to the guillotine or transported to the colonies, their kids were not kidnapped etc !!

It's a dispute over money , where a judge is the referee , they decide who owes who and how much , it's one of their jobs !!!

If you lost in court , pay the £175 within a month , preferably asap , to avoid the CCJ being filed on your credit rating , ideally pay on the way out

Barry Beavis lost to PE and paid his judgment promptly , then lost to Parking Eye in another 2 courts as well , you don't see him being melodramatic due to ignorance of the topic , so wise up

Le_Kirk

cstephen67 said:

@Le_Kirk I don't seem to be allowed to post links!
"It's worth noting that the court may take your previous appeal rejection into account, so a win may be harder."
Article is under Reclaims, by Megan French, it was edited 27th August 2019
Thx Caroline

You won't be able to until you have a certain number of posts under your belt, however, just post a broken link such as: -
www.heres mylink.co.uk and it will be fixed for you.  Also, what is Reclaims please?  Who is Megan French?  Is it a parking forum posting?  That quotes sounds like the author is referring to the IPC/IAS kangaroo paid for appeal system. 
LATER: -
Just found it, it is one of the MSE articles and the advice in those articles is wrong.  It does indeed refer to the IAS appeal (although it could include the POPLA as well).  The forum members have been trying to get the main site to revise the advice given in those articles but meet with stiff resistance.

Fruitcake

ParkingLie know that the photos taken on your 'phone will have the metadata showing precisely when and on what date they were taken.
I think they would be stupid to start a court claim, but they are bullies and liars so they may try it on anyway despite knowing this.
Dig the metadata out yourself, and make sure the images and data are saved on a separate device as well as your 'phone. If ParkingLie send you anything post PoPLA, reply to them with the image and the metadata information, instructing them to cease and desist.

cstephen67

Redx said:

A loss against parking eye in a civil court is £175 , not £400 , it's the £100 charge plus £75 in legal and court costs , it's small claims court , not trying to get Trump to pay his taxes !

And nobody broke the law so you are still law abiding , you have received an invoice from a private company , no different than receiving a £100 table from IKEA and being expected to pay for it after delivery , or owing a landlord one week's rent

Don't make it out to be more than it is , plus thousands of people like you have been to civil court and they were not sent to the guillotine or transported to the colonies, their kids were not kidnapped etc !!

It's a dispute over money , where a judge is the referee , they decide who owes who and how much , it's one of their jobs !!!

If you lost in court , pay the £175 within a month , preferably asap , to avoid the CCJ being filed on your credit rating , ideally pay on the way out

Barry Beavis posts and paid his judgment promptly , then lost to Parking Eye in another 2 courts as well , you don't see him being melodramatic due to ignorance of the topic , so wise up

LOL!  You are quite a character!  OK, i think i get the message - no big deal, it's not like they've caught me out for doing something wrong, just wise up & walk proud.  Thank you, will move forward then yikes.

cstephen67

Le_Kirk said:

cstephen67 said:

@Le_Kirk I don't seem to be allowed to post links!
"It's worth noting that the court may take your previous appeal rejection into account, so a win may be harder."
Article is under Reclaims, by Megan French, it was edited 27th August 2019
Thx Caroline

You won't be able to until you have a certain number of posts under your belt, however, just post a broken link such as: -
www.heres mylink.co.uk and it will be fixed for you.  Also, what is Reclaims please?  Who is Megan French?  Is it a parking forum posting?  That quotes sounds like the author is referring to the IPC/IAS kangaroo paid for appeal system. 
LATER: -
Just found it, it is one of the MSE articles and the advice in those articles is wrong.  It does indeed refer to the IAS appeal (although it could include the POPLA as well).  The forum members have been trying to get the main site to revise the advice given in those articles but meet with stiff resistance.

OK, tbh I didn't realise that the articles and the active forum member postings weren't all part of the same message.  I assumed they supported each other rather than in conflict!  Maybe just me, but that's confusing and unfortunately the articles come up higher than individual posts or the forums when searching & browsing on the site, plus seem more curated & authoritative - so agree with you that the main site should go with the right advice!