PCN help please

calmwalks

Hi,

I recently had a PCN through the post.  Following the advice in the newbie thread I used the template and emailed over the appeal to the company. 

Today I received the following reply:

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Parking Charge Notice: xxxxxx

Vehicle Registration: xxxxxxx

POPLA Verification Code: xxxxx

Thank you for your email dated xxxxxx,

We advise that the xxxxx car park operates as pay and display system for all car park users, including blue badge holders. This is clearly stated on the signs located throughout the car park.

We advise that upon entering the car park a ticket should be purchased from one of the machines, entering your vehicle registration. This will then communicate with our camera operated ANPR system.

The car park is operated on an Automatic Number Plate Recognition system therefore the camera will pick up your vehicle registration entering and exiting the car park.

As no payment for parking was made/ ticket purchased, the parking charge notice was issued correctly.

The legal basis of the Parking Charge Notice is based on the contract entered by drivers who park on private land. The terms and conditions upon which the contract is based is clearly stated on all signage located throughout the car park. When parking on private land the motorist freely enters into an agreement to abide by the conditions for parking in return for permission to park, it is the motorists responsibility to ensure they abide by any clearly displayed conditions for parking.

Local Parking Security Ltd are a fully approved member of the British Parking Association and as such abide by all current legislation and regulations with regards to parking on private land.

Local Parking Security Ltd manages the car park on behalf of the landowners.

All confirmation and evidence will be provided to POPLA upon POPLA’s request.

We can confirm that the VECTOR ‘ANPR’ camera shares the same hardware as the SPECS3 VECTOR camera, which is designed to provide robust time-keeping and has been independently tested to pass the stringent requirements of the Home Office Type Approval process. Following power-up, the VECTOR camera obtains a GPS lock and subsequently uses that for time synchronisation. The ANPR camera device is checked several times throughout the day to confirm that this is communicating with our software system. The ANPR cameras and Pay and Display machines communicate together, our machine records can prove this.

We advise that the registered keeper is liable for payment of the unpaid Parking Charge Notice if they are unable to provide us with the driver’s details at the time the Parking Charge Notice was issued.

Please refer to Protections of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule four, for further details on this.

If you are able to provide us with the drivers details at the time the Parking Charge Notice was issued we will contact them directly. If you cannot provide us with these details we will have no option but to pursue the claim against you as the registered keeper.

Thank you for your appeal against the parking charge notice issued by us to you on the xxxxx for the contravention which took place on the xxxxxx.  Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we regret your appeal has been unsuccessful for the following reasons:

• Failure to Pay for the Duration of Stay

You now have a number of options:

1. Pay the Parking Charge Notice at the reduced amount of £xxx within 14 days from this email, this payment can be made by:

I. Using our online payment system, please use link xxx and follow the instructions.

II. Alternately you can make a payment on our automated phone line by calling xxxx

Please note that after the 14 days the Parking Charge Notice will increase to £xxxx

2. Make an appeal to POPLA – The independent Appeals Service by visiting www.popla.co.uk and submitting your appeal online.  Please note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the charge at the discounted rate of £xxx, and should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount of £xxx. If you opt to pay the Parking Charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.

3. If you choose to do nothing we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. 

If you wish to appeal to POPLA, please submit your appeal online by visiting www.popla.co.uk.

When submitting your appeal to POPLA, please use verification code xxxxxx.

Please note that you have 28 days from the date of this email to submit your appeal to POPLA.

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services www.ombudsman-services.org/ provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal.  However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service.  As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.

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Any advice on next steps would be greatly appreciated.

KeithP

calmwalks said:

Any advice on next steps would be greatly appreciated.

The next steps, appealing to PoPLA, are fully described in the third post of the NEWBIES thread.

Have you complained to the landowner?
That is best done before PoPLA but don't miss the PoPLA appeal deadline.

Where did this parking event take place?

calmwalks

KeithP said:

calmwalks said:

Any advice on next steps would be greatly appreciated.

The next steps, appealing to PoPLA, are fully described in the third post of the NEWBIES thread.

Have you complained to the landowner?
That is best done before PoPLA but don't miss the PoPLA appeal deadline.

Where did this parking event take place?

Hi Keith.  Thank you for the response.  I have not complained to the landowner.  I am currently trying to find out who that is.  When I have I will complain ASAP.

The location was Ashford ANPR Car park in Surrey.

KeithP

Behind Ashford Antiques Centre?

Caused a lot of trouble/interest a few years back but has been relatively quiet since...
https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/ashford-car-park-protesters-refuse-12701335

calmwalks

Yes, that is the one.

fisherjim

Why did you get the charge exactly?

calmwalks

fisherjim said:

Why did you get the charge exactly?

The PCN orginal letter says "Failure to pay for the duration of the stay".  For a duration of 15 mins.

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, sometimes it can lead to cancellation.,

Coupon-mad

Is that place someone posted about earlier this year where one car park is within another, with unclear signs? 
I think they did a POPLA appeal so did you search this forum for the name of the place?  This has been discussed this year.

AND - CALLING ALL NEWBIES!

Please now make a real difference because not enough people have yet, and time is running out.

An urgent task – deadline approaching in about ten days:

The Government is consulting for just a few more days, about a new statutory code of practice (CoP) and framework to rein in the rogue parking firms.  Read and comment on the draft CoP proposal and the enforcement framework consultation, and get everyone you know to do the same.

You will need to register then log in, to comment on the CoP and enter an occupation even if you are retired or a homemaker.  Submit comments as soon as you are happy with them.

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

You do not need to register to comment on the enforcement framework which can be found here. It has a link on page 5 to make comments.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/913272/Code_Enforcement_Framework_consultation.pdf

HOW TO DO THE SUBMISSIONS:

1. Read the cover letter

2. Read the cover letter again and note the suggested extra questions...and if you agree that, say, the 'loading/unloading and dropping off, asking for directions, and disabled people parking on double yellows as they can on street' activities listed should be exempt (not parking events, what do you think?) then please go to the Annexes at the end of the PAS Code and find the one about Exempt Vehicles and state what other activity you think should be added to the exempt list.  

 

If you do nothing else, please comment on:

- the amount of the parking charge levels

- the annexes at the end of the PAS (reading through the whole thing takes hours so if you have nothing to say about the definitions, for example, then skip to more vital points and the annex tables at the end.

- the bit about debt collectors and whether you think PPCs should be allowed to add 'costs' a second time, for the letters that are already within the rationale of the 'parking charge' sum...hmmm...

Responses into the PAS 232 and MHCLG framework documents are not completely straightforward:

On the MHCLG response, you have to answer the questions on a 1-5 scale from strongly agree to strongly disagree, and then put some commentary. No way to upload documents or alternatives but this doesn't take long.

 

 On the PAS 232, you have to click on each clause and sub-clause to put your comments, and a suggested rewording of their draft.  You can see comments which other people have written!   But, when you click ‘submit’, a message pops up to say your comments have been received, but that only applies to the particular clause you have just addressed.  

You have to go back up and find the next section, then the next...

You have to click ‘submit’ separately for each individual clause response.  Some people will be caught out by this but can revisit it and add further responses up to 12 October.

 

Things to think about:

A Speeding fine is £100.  A Local Authority lower rate parking penalty is £50.  Which do you think a private PCN should be like or do you think it should be something different?  

Do you think if all payment methods are not functioning that PPC can 'fine' you?

 

Do you think the examples mentioned in the cover letter are right and need adding to the Annex?

 

etc. etc.

 

 

calmwalks

Hi @Coupon-mad I found several threads relating to this car park but none that actually show what they appealed against or what they submitted as their appeal.  Two of them were succesful but only because the company never contested the appeal.  The others do not provide an outcome.

Having visited the site at night, which is when the alleged offence took place, the car park is poorly lit, the signs are small and only doted around the edge of the car park, there is no clear marking for where the car park ends, the white line that show where one car park starts and the other ends is a bit faded and hard to see at night, the sign you see on entering is lit but small and to the side.  The only clearly well lit sign is not visible from most of the car park, basically you can only see it from the back which is all in shadow as the lighting is on the other side.

calmwalks

Photos posted below.  Please let me know your thoughts.

Car park entrance sign

Car park entrance boundary line

View from the centre of the car park

Car park exit no boundary line