Help For a Neighbour who has County Court Claim for False Parking

chaz129

Hi
I followed the newbie on post on the AOS, that's all, we made a gateway ID and then clicked AOS and the site said something about extra time and that was all we did, we didn't fill in anything else not even a dot, this is awkward for me as it's not about me and my neighbour is totally lost with this, I am just trying to help her.
The Car park is large and serves several shops Wilkos, Sainsbury's, Peacocks and a few smaller shops, everyone there says its owned by Sainsbury being the biggest and probably get about 70% of the footfall,  I have since found out it belonged to a company in London named Columbia Threadneedle asset management Ltd but they may have sold it since then anyway it seems no one wants to admit they own the car park other than employing VCS to manage it.
All I really need to know now is what do we do next to prepare a defence please.

Regards
Charles

Half_way

Where is this car park?
Where did you find out who owns it?

Le_Kirk

chaz129 said:

Hi
I followed the newbie on post on the AOS, that's all, we made a gateway ID and then clicked AOS and the site said something about extra time and that was all we did, we didn't fill in anything else not even a dot, this is awkward for me as it's not about me and my neighbour is totally lost with this, I am just trying to help her.
The Car park is large and serves several shops Wilkos, Sainsbury's, Peacocks and a few smaller shops, everyone there says its owned by Sainsbury being the biggest and probably get about 70% of the footfall,  I have since found out it belonged to a company in London named Columbia Threadneedle asset management Ltd but they may have sold it since then anyway it seems no one wants to admit they own the car park other than employing VCS to manage it.
All I really need to know now is what do we do next to prepare a defence please.

That is good.  Now to your/your neighbour's defence.  I posted a bit of advice in my previous post.  Are you able to follow that?  Try either the Land Registry or the local council to see who owns it now.  Land Registry will tell you (for £3) who owns it an local council (they sometimes have a spreadsheet available) who pays the business rates.

chaz129

Hi
I have found that the owner is now Dransfield Properties in Sheffield according to Selby District Council but on calling them they wont admit/deny its their property they say the surveying department will call me back but I wont hold my breath.

Le_Kirk

On with the defence then.  It must be done (as I am sure you are aware) in your neighbour's name and signed by them even you can help pull it all together.

chaz129

Hi Le_Kirk
I understand this point and have already started the defence download and filling in with my neighbour would it be possible to run this by you when finished before we send this in privately some way, as I do not want to make any more mistakes or misunderstandings.
I am still a little confused as to where this defence document should go too, is it to the county court as a pdf or is a copy sent to VCS also at the end on the defence it says 

"Approved Judgment from Southampton Court is appended to show why claims such as this are being summarily struck out"

Not sure what to do with this TBH should i delete it or put something else in here.

chaz129

Update 
I just had a call from Dransfield properties and I was correct when I tracked down Columbia Threadneedle Limited it seems that is now named Threadneedle Pension Limited based in London and managed by surveyors in Leeds who look after the property, the surveyors management name are ReesDenton.

Le_Kirk

chaz129 said:

Hi Le_Kirk
I understand this point and have already started the defence download and filling in with my neighbour would it be possible to run this by you when finished before we send this in privately some way, as I do not want to make any more mistakes or misunderstandings.
I am still a little confused as to where this defence document should go too, is it to the county court as a pdf or is a copy sent to VCS also at the end on the defence it says 

"Approved Judgment from Southampton Court is appended to show why claims such as this are being summarily struck out"

Not sure what to do with this TBH should i delete it or put something else in here.

It is quite common for posters to show us their defence before submitting it; it is also quite safe to do it on the open forum (doing it this way means all the regulars will get a chance to look at it rather than relying on one person who maybe having a day off!); just make sure all personal details are removed.  You only need to show us paragraphs 17 & 18 as the rest is standard.  The Judgment Britannia V Crosby is attached to the defence.  Things have moved on since that thread was written and it is now not so guaranteed that cases get dismissed due to the abuse of process, so do not rely on this as the main defence, however it will help to remove the spurious £60 debt control (if it has been added) and keep the losses down (should the worst happen and the case is lost) so read all the way through that thread you've found.  Part way through that thread (shown below) are the instructions for sending your defence.  You don't send VCS anything at this point, the CCBC will send that to them.

Thanks to @KeithP for this summary of how to submit a defence by email to the CCBCAQ email address:  

If you have no access to a scanner, then put an electronic signature in it. When you are happy with it, your defence is to be filed via email as suggested here:

Print your Defence.

Sign it and date it.

Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.

Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk and if you haven't been able to merge the 6 page Southampton Judgment PDF into your document, just attach that too, but as a second PDF.

Just put the claim number (check it very carefully) and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.

Don't do anything else on MCOL (certainly do not use the option 'start defence'!) but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.

After filing your Defence, there is more to do...

Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire and the usual intimidating template letter saying they 'intend to proceed'. Nothing of interest there. Just file it.

Wait for your own Directions Questionnaire from the CCBC, or download one from the internet - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track , and then complete it as described by bargepole in his 'what happens when' post linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES thread - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64350585#Comment_64350585

The completed DQ should be returned by email to the CCBC to the same address and in the same way as your Defence was filed earlier.  AND attach the Southampton Approved Judgment (6 pages as linked in the first post above) to your DQ email as well, in case the CCBC hasn't appended it with your defence.  

Send a copy of your completed DQ to the Claimant (or their solicitor if they are using one).  Their postal address is on your Claim Form but you can find an email for them by searching this forum, or Google it, because a DQ sent by email is OK and then you know/can prove it's been sent.   

DO NOT USE RECORDED (OR SPECIAL) DELIVERY FOR ANYTHING TO A PARKING FIRM OR THEIR SOLICITOR.   DO NOT EXPECT ROGUE FIRMS TO SIGN FOR YOUR LETTERS.  IF THEY DON'T, ALL YOU HAVE IS PROOF OF NON-DELIVERY, WHICH IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU NEED!

Will you have to attend a hearing? Yes - unless the claim is struck out or the PPC discontinues (fairly common!).  Will that hearing be at Northampton?  NO!  That's just a central starting point for claims.  If you are an individual, you get the choose your local court, and in 2020, telephone hearings are becoming more likely.  Face to face hearings are better though, and easier to follow the visual cues from the Judge who allow for Defendants being scared and unused to the situation.  You do NOT want your case 'heard on the papers' (absolutely no).  You want a hearing and you can claim your costs if you win, and you risk nothing (no CCJ, no huge costs) by defending, because if you were among the handful who report a loss here you'd have 30 days to pay and it would be less than on the claim form (£175 - £200 all told).

KeithP

chaz129 said:

I am still a little confused as to where this defence document should go too, is it to the county court as a pdf or is a copy sent to VCS.

Once again I find it necessary to refer you back to my post of 29 September at 2:04PM. <<<=== that's a link, click on it.

In there it says:

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

See those words - then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread?

But show us the draft Defence, with personal details redacted, when you are ready. You still have nearly three weeks to perfect it.

Coupon-mad

Do this FIRST PLEASE, this weekend: An urgent task – deadline is MONDAY!

Please now make a real difference because not enough people have yet, and time is running out. 

The Government is consulting for just a few more days, about a new statutory code of practice (CoP) and framework intended to rein in the rogue parking firms. 

Does it go far enough?  Read and comment on the draft CoP proposal and the enforcement framework consultation (two separate consultation documents).

HOW TO DO THE SUBMISSIONS:

BSI PAS 232 – COMMENTING ON THE CODE OF PRACTICE AS DRAFTED :

1.    You will need to register then log in, to comment on the CoP and enter an occupation even if you are retired or a homemaker.  

 

2.    Register, log into the BSI page, and download & read the cover letter here:

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

 

3.    Read the cover letter again and note the suggested extra questions... if you agree that, say, the 'loading/unloading and dropping off, asking for directions, and disabled people parking on double yellows as they can on street' activities listed should be exempt (not parking events, what do you think?) then please go to the Annexes at the end of the PAS Code and find the one about Exempt Vehicles and state what other activity you think should be added to the exempt list. 

 

4.    Download the PAS itself and start commenting on what you wish to say something about.  Quick links to each section appear on the left of your page. 

 

You don’t have to comment on everything, e.g. you might want to skip the definitions and focus on later sections, and certainly look at the Annex tables at the end that show things like consideration & grace periods and exemptions.

 

5.    Submit comments when you are happy with them. Don’t just ‘SAVE’ and forget!

 

THAT IS HALF THE JOB DONE!

THE MHCLG CONSULTATION IS EASIER AS IT IS JUST A LIST OF QUESTIONS. 

 

6.    You can do it first if preferred or pushed for time:

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=EGg0v32c3kOociSi7zmVqAVPfAOtwRxLhHRwQ610oElUMzhQSVo0WUQ4SERVSEZaUU9DTUhFQ1VMUy4u

If your answers exceed 4000 characters (approx. 500 words to a single question or 16000 words (approx. 2500 words) for all the questions below, you can email your answers to parking@communities.gov.uk as long as you state who you are.

 

 

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS YOU WILL SEE, FOR RESPONSES TO THE FRAMEWORK:

Q1 Do you agree or disagree that members of APAs should be required to use a single appeals service appointed by the Secretary of State?

Strongly agree/Somewhat agree/Neither agree nor disagree/Somewhat disagree/Strongly disagree

 

Q1.1 Please explain your answer

(free text)

 

 

Q2 Please provide any other feedback on the determination of appeals, including the funding model and features that an appeal service should offer e.g. telephone or in-person hearings, the ability to submit evidence online

(free text)

 

Q3 Please provide any comments you have on the proposal to enforce the Code by combining the ATA’s existing audit procedures with additional safeguards.

(free text)

 

Q4 Please outline any alternative means by which the Code could be monitored and enforced. You may wish to cite evidence from other regulatory frameworks which are relevant.

(free text)

 

Q5 Please provide any feedback you have on the proposed governance arrangements for monitoring the new Code of Practice

(free text)

 

Q6 Which parking charge system is most appropriate for private parking?

 a) the Three-tiered system

 b) Mirroring the Local Authority system

(free text)

 

 Q6.1 Please explain your answer. You may, for example, wish to make reference to other deterrent frameworks (for example, for railway tickets or traffic violations)

(free text)

 

 

Q7 What level of discount is appropriate:

40% as is currently offered in private parking and suggested in the three-tiered system, or

50% as is offered in Local Authority parking?

a) 40%

b) 50%

 

Q7.1 Please explain your answer, including whether the discount should be set at a different level

(free text)

 

 

 Q8 How should the level of parking charges be set and how should the levels be revised in future?

(free text)

 

 

Q9 Do you agree or disagree in principle with the idea of the Appeals Charter?

Agree/Disagree

 

Q9.1 Please explain your answer

(free text)

 

 

Q10 Do you agree or not that the examples given in the Appeals Charter are fair and appropriate? Agree/Disagree

 

Q10.1 Please explain your answer.

You may wish, for example, to suggest additional cases to be covered in an Appeals Charter or query existing examples.

(free text)

 

Q11 Do you agree or disagree that the parking industry should contribute towards the cost of the regulation?

Agree/Disagree

 

Q11.1 Please explain your answer.

(free text)

 

YOU CAN INSTEAD GIVE MORE CONCISE ANSWERS ONLINE, USING THE MHCLG PAGE LINK.

Don’t forget that answering these questions is the easier bit…

Looking at the BSI PAS (the draft code of practice itself) involves logging in and submitting comments again, and again and again and takes more time!

There is a discussion about PAS submissions and what the pages look like, here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6195417/am-i-doing-something-wrong/p1