Electric Money Saving Idea?

tim_p

gzoom said:

Gerry1 said:  Where can I buy some of these magic electrons?

It actually relates to exactly what the OP was asking, there is nothing magical about the sun, it comes up every day, but sadly in the UK we often have cloud/rain which means its hard to capture all that electricity. But when we do get clear weather, solar + battery storage really can reduced your gird usage. 

Do you suffer from shading?

Cardew

If I put 7 litres in my petrol golf I can drive to my destination in the Scottish highlands - a distance of 500 miles. Mind you it helps that I have 48 litres of petrol left in the tank.

An analogy just as nonsensical as your lengthy post purporting to cover 500 miles on 12kWh; without that post mentioning a £10,000 PowerWall and solar panels.

However as you are lauding the ‘crazy low’ running costs of 2p to 3.5p a mile for your EV , I see that you have owned a Tesla X for 3.5 years https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/77536938#Comment_77536938

As this is a money saving website; have you ever calculated the annual running cost per mile taking into account the vehicle depreciation and cost of Powerwall?

gzoom

^Our PowerWall was installed for free, and our solar panels came with the house. The car has depreciated 30% in 3.5years far less than an equivalent combustion car I would have bought otherwise .

As I keep asking please show me a combustion car of equivalent performance that comes close to the running costs of our EV, including depreciation.

If you my posts I've never said what the OP is proposing makes financial sense, but arguing EVs don't have cheap running costs is just wrong.

If you really want cheap motoring a £10k used Nissan Leaf will be cheap to own, run, and are Appreciating in value - How much more money saving do you want to get?? Ofcourse if you need to drive 500 miles non stop every day you're out of luck:).

Cardew

gzoom said:

^Our PowerWall was installed for free, and our solar panels came with the house. The car has depreciated 30% in 3.5years

I could have been given my car as a present - so does that mean depreciation isn't a factor when calculating my annual running costs?

matelodave

gzoom said:

^Our PowerWall was installed for free, and our solar panels came with the house. The car has depreciated 30% in 3.5years far less than an equivalent combustion car I would have bought otherwise .

As I keep asking please show me a combustion car of equivalent performance that comes close to the running costs of our EV, including depreciation.

If you my posts I've never said what the OP is proposing makes financial sense, but arguing EVs don't have cheap running costs is just wrong.

If you really want cheap motoring a £10k used Nissan Leaf will be cheap to own, run, and are Appreciating in value - How much more money saving do you want to get?? Ofcourse if you need to drive 500 miles non stop every day you're out of luck:).

I don't think many of us would dispute that a free power wall and solar panels that were already installed would be a significant money saver, whether you have a leccy car or not but that wasn't the question that the OP posed.

I guess he may not have solar panels to assist charging the batteries during the day and to generate energy for general use so he will have to try and decide whether spending out £7-10k on a battery set up (and possibly another £5-6k on a solar array) will save him money over a reasonable period of time - his cost analysis will be a lot different to yours because he's got a very large capital outlay to recover before he breaks even.

He also needs to work out what his energy consumption profile is - mine annual consumption averages out at 600kwh month but that's not how I use it - in the summer it's nearer 250-300kwh a month but in the the winter it can be over 1000kwh a month so his sums will get a bit more complex if he can't use all that he stores in the summer but lots more than he can store in the winter.

What does your solar generation look like in the middle of December ?

gzoom

matelodave said:

What does your solar generation look like in the middle of December ?

Between about now October to end of Feb there isn't enough solar to cover car charging, and between Nov to Mid Jan there isn't enough solar to cover house usage.

We charge our EV with E7 electricity, and in winter after charging losses equates to roughly 2 miles per kWh. We pay 9p per kWh E7 rates, so thats 4.5p per mile in fuel costs. You need a combustion car to achieve 110mpg real life usage at £1.10/litre to match the fuel costs. 

The battery storage also means 95% of the time even in winter we are paying E7 rates even in the day time as we charge the home battery. Financially a home battery takes 20 years to pay back based on these rates, I've never said anything otherwise. But equally EVs are cheap to run - which some people seem to refuse to believe, and if you have home battery storage you can offset alot of grid electricity usage to cheaper rates. 

Cardew

gzoom said:

 But equally EVs are cheap to run - which some people seem to refuse to believe,

It is your definition of 'cheap to run' that is debatable. 'Fuel Costs' are not the deciding factor in overall running costs.

Obviously 'fuel' costs for an EV are much lower than any IC car. 3p to 4p a mile(when charged at home on an E7 tariff) against 10p to 12p for a smallish IC car.

The Department of Transport stated in 2019 that the UK average Annual UK mileage is 7,134. So using the figures for fuel costs above that puts the annual 'fuel' cost for an EV at £214 to £285 and for an IC car at £713 to £856. So an annual saving of £500 - £570. 

EVs are much more expensive to purchase than comparable IC vehicles. For instance prices for a Nissan Leaf range from £26,845 to £36,395.(with top spec models above £40k) The Nissan Juke costs £17,860 to £21,460 - so £9k to £15k cheaper. The VW GolfE is around £10k+ more expensive than same specification petro/diesel Golf. So any 'fuel' savings will take around 20 years to offset the additional costs.

If you look at many websites(other than EV enthusiasts magazines) they claim that depreciation on EVs - other than Tesla - is higher than comparable IC cars.

gzoom

Gerry1 said:

The apparent low running cost is just bait to get people switching. 

Again am not arguing at all about purchase costs or even total ownership costs. But this statement is specific on 'apparently running cost'.

I've owned a whole load of cars over the years including a £500 Nissan Micra. Our current EVs have been the cheapest cars to 'run' by a country mile over the last 5.5 years and some 60k.

Interms of running cost no combustion car can get close to EVs.

Gerry1

I've made it totally clear that EVs are cheap to run at present, but that this happy situation is unlikely to remain the case when they become mass market.  No government will want to lose all that fossil fuel revenue, especially when the country is being bankrupted by coronavirus.

It's effectively a Limited Time Special Introductory Offer which may and will be withdrawn.  Yes, fantastic while it lasts, but anyone who expects it to remain the same for very long will get an unpleasant reality check at some stage.

Cardew

gzoom said:

Gerry1 said:

The apparent low running cost is just bait to get people switching. 

Again am not arguing at all about purchase costs or even total ownership costs. But this statement is specific on 'apparently running cost'.

I've owned a whole load of cars over the years including a £500 Nissan Micra. Our current EVs have been the cheapest cars to 'run' by a country mile over the last 5.5 years and some 60k.

Interms of running cost no combustion car can get close to EVs.

https://www.comparethemarket.com/car-insurance/content/running-a-car/

The running costs of a car

A car’s running costs go beyond fuel bills and insurance. You’ve also got to consider tax, repair work and depreciation.

Why do you single out 'fuel'(i.e. electricity or petrol/diesel) costs as the sole factor in car running costs

I suggest you Google 'car running costs'  and see how many agree with your definition of 'running costs'