Help with defence

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If this is Excel then I doubt that there was a Penalty notice , more likely that it was a Parking charge notice

A SAR will flush out any missing documents and pictures and data so check those replies

It's not about you recollecting that you went in that car park , it's that they have pictures showing that A DRIVER entered the car park in your vehicle !!! 

They have to prove you were the driver , because they will have failed to comply with POFA. They are trying to hold you liable as keeper , but failed the law named POFA that allows them to do so. They are assuming that the driver was the keeper , but it could have been your local mechanic driving it during a service !!

Le_Kirk

hop130 said:

Le_Kirk said:

What they haven't said is HOW you breached the contract.  Did you not pay, did you overstay, did you not display a ticket or permit?

Sorry, tried to summarise their PoC.  What it says is:

"101) Parked Without Payment Of The Parking Tariff For The Vehicle Registration Mark Of The Vehicle On Site"

The SAR also provided 2 pictures of the vehicle on entry and exit for a duration of 49 minutes.

My main problem is that I have no recollection of having gone in the car park on the day in 2017.  Never received a PCN or anything else and the first thing I got was a letter before claim in Feb this year.

Well there is your defence; either a) the defendant (or the defendant's car) did not enter the car park on that date OR b) the defendant's car did enter the car park on that date but did pay for a ticket.  Since they have ANPR evidence I would suggest a) is unlikely to succeed and you will have to go for failure of their PDT.  Is suppose you could use no keeper liability, as presumably they don't know who was driving.

Coupon-mad

  

CHANNEL YOUR ANGER ABOUT THIS PATHETIC CHARGE TO CHANGE THE WAY THE PARKING INDUSTRY WORK:

CALLING ALL NEWBIES! 

 

An urgent task – deadline approaching in a week or so:

Please now make a real difference because not enough people have yet, and time is running out. 

The Government is consulting for just a few more days, about a new statutory code of practice (CoP) and framework intended to rein in the rogue parking firms. 

Does it go far enough?  Read and comment on the draft CoP proposal and the enforcement framework consultation (two separate consultation documents).

HOW TO DO THE SUBMISSIONS:

BSI PAS 232 – COMMENTING ON THE CODE OF PRACTICE AS DRAFTED :

1.    You will need to register then log in, to comment on the CoP and enter an occupation even if you are retired or a homemaker.  

 

2.    Register, log into the BSI page, and download & read the cover letter here:

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

 

3.    Read the cover letter again and note the suggested extra questions... if you agree that, say, the 'loading/unloading and dropping off, asking for directions, and disabled people parking on double yellows as they can on street' activities listed should be exempt (not parking events, what do you think?) then please go to the Annexes at the end of the PAS Code and find the one about Exempt Vehicles and state what other activity you think should be added to the exempt list. 

 

4.    Download the PAS itself and start commenting on what you wish to say something about.  Quick links to each section appear on the left of your page. 

 

You don’t have to comment on everything, e.g. you might want to skip the definitions and focus on later sections, and certainly look at the Annex tables at the end that show things like consideration & grace periods and exemptions.

 

5.    Submit comments when you are happy with them. Don’t just ‘SAVE’ and forget!

 

THAT IS HALF THE JOB DONE!

THE MHCLG CONSULTATION IS EASIER AS IT IS JUST A LIST OF QUESTIONS. 

 

6.    You can do it first if preferred or pushed for time:

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=EGg0v32c3kOociSi7zmVqAVPfAOtwRxLhHRwQ610oElUMzhQSVo0WUQ4SERVSEZaUU9DTUhFQ1VMUy4u

If your answers exceed 4000 characters (approx. 500 words to a single question or 16000 words (approx. 2500 words) for all the questions below, you can email your answers to parking@communities.gov.uk as long as you state who you are.

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS YOU WILL SEE, FOR RESPONSES TO THE FRAMEWORK:

Q1 Do you agree or disagree that members of APAs should be required to use a single appeals service appointed by the Secretary of State?

Strongly agree/Somewhat agree/Neither agree nor disagree/Somewhat disagree/Strongly disagree

 

Q1.1 Please explain your answer

(free text)

 

 

Q2 Please provide any other feedback on the determination of appeals, including the funding model and features that an appeal service should offer e.g. telephone or in-person hearings, the ability to submit evidence online

(free text)

 

Q3 Please provide any comments you have on the proposal to enforce the Code by combining the ATA’s existing audit procedures with additional safeguards.

(free text)

 

Q4 Please outline any alternative means by which the Code could be monitored and enforced. You may wish to cite evidence from other regulatory frameworks which are relevant.

(free text)

 

Q5 Please provide any feedback you have on the proposed governance arrangements for monitoring the new Code of Practice

(free text)

 

Q6 Which parking charge system is most appropriate for private parking?

 a) the Three-tiered system

 b) Mirroring the Local Authority system

(free text)

 

 Q6.1 Please explain your answer. You may, for example, wish to make reference to other deterrent frameworks (for example, for railway tickets or traffic violations)

(free text)

 

 

Q7 What level of discount is appropriate:

40% as is currently offered in private parking and suggested in the three-tiered system, or

50% as is offered in Local Authority parking?

a) 40%

b) 50%

 

Q7.1 Please explain your answer, including whether the discount should be set at a different level

(free text)

 

 

 Q8 How should the level of parking charges be set and how should the levels be revised in future?

(free text)

 

 

Q9 Do you agree or disagree in principle with the idea of the Appeals Charter?

Agree/Disagree

 

Q9.1 Please explain your answer

(free text)

 

 

Q10 Do you agree or not that the examples given in the Appeals Charter are fair and appropriate? Agree/Disagree

 

Q10.1 Please explain your answer.

You may wish, for example, to suggest additional cases to be covered in an Appeals Charter or query existing examples.

(free text)

 

Q11 Do you agree or disagree that the parking industry should contribute towards the cost of the regulation?

Agree/Disagree

 

Q11.1 Please explain your answer.

(free text)

 

YOU CAN INSTEAD GIVE MORE CONCISE ANSWERS ONLINE, USING THE MHCLG PAGE LINK.

Don’t forget that answering these questions is the easier bit…

Looking at the BSI PAS (the draft code of practice itself) involves logging in and submitting comments again, and again and again and takes more time!

There is a discussion about PAS submissions and what the pages look like, here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6195417/am-i-doing-something-wrong/p1

 

hop130

hop130 said:

I wonder if any of the regulars can help with my draft defence to a claim from Excel/Elm for an alleged PCN from 2017?

I received a letter before claim in Feb for £160 principal debt (including £60 debt collection charge) and responded asking for more details required to consider my defence as I was previously unaware of the PCN but never received a reply.  I also submitted a SAR to Excel and received their reply.

The next thing I received was a claim form from CCBC to which I submitted an acknowledgement of service which is now shown on the MCOL website as having been received on 21 September.

I've now prepared my draft defence using CouponMad's template mainly unchanged but with the following 2 additional paragraphs:

16. On receipt of the Letter before Claim on behalf of the Claimant of 7 February 2020 (Appendix B), the Defendant replied on 20 February 2020 (Appendix C) requesting
additional information in compliance with the Claimant’s obligations under the Pre-Action Protocol so the Defendant could respond properly to the alleged claim. The Claimant has not yet responded to the letter to date or provided the information requested.

20. In the letter of 20 February 2020, the Defendant requested that the Claimant provides a copy of the Parking Charge Notice and reinstate any applicable appeal period and discounted payment terms while an appeal is considered. The alleged contravention happened in 2017 and the Letter before Claim was the Defendant’s first awareness of its existence. The Claimant has not responded to this request to date which is clearly in breach of the code of practice.

Thanks for your help.

Just finished the telephone hearing.  Judgment to pay the £100 PCN but the £60 "debt collection charge" struck out.  Also, no costs or interest awarded against me as the judge felt I'd acted reasonably.  Thanks for all your help.

nosferatu1001

Thats far better than hoped for - they made a BIG loss on that

hop130

nosferatu1001 said:

Thats far better than hoped for - they made a BIG loss on that

Thanks, I've convinced myself it's a score draw as it must have cost them a lot more than the £100 they're getting to bring the case to trial.