Bought vehicle with expired plate, V5 problems.. help?

facade

It sounds like the seller didn't transfer keeper of the 'bike to you when he sold it to you, as the Law requires, but instead applied to put the private number on retention.

Once he did that, he could not transfer keepership to you, as the V5 he has is invalid.

DVLA issue a new V5 with the original number to him, and then he will then (if he can be bothered) transfer it to you.

You can either muddy the waters by applying for a V5 for free, using the new keeper slip he gave you with the private registration on, or wait a week or two and apply for a V5 in your name with the original registration number, but this takes a few weeks to arrive due to checking back with the last keeper, and costs you £25. (In The Olden Days I have successfully applied for a V5 using just the VIN & engine numbers for a 'bike with no numberplate)

At the moment, you cannot tax it, so you can't use it.

Just keep bothering him until he does something, you need the number off the valid new keeper slip to tax it.

born_again

Hope you are not riding the bike.

Ditzy_Mitzy

Having thought about this, the seller is being completely unreasonable here.  He is, firstly, attempting to deprive the OP of use of his own motorbike, which he has no right to do; secondly the OP is now in a potentially difficult position as regards tax and continuous insurance.  Is the seller going to keep the bike insured and taxed, the bike he no longer owns?  Probably not.  This means the OP is now in custody of a motorbike that he can't either insure and tax, or declare SORN, which is illegal.  The OP has a duty to take necessary actions to prevent himself breaking the law.
OP: if I were you I'd apply for a logbook in my name, immediately, per the bike's present registration number.  Then, because I like to be nice, I'd write to the seller and inform him that he has, say, six months to send me the fee for putting the number plate on retention.  If he did, I would do so and then arrange to transfer the number to him, for no consideration, on the basis he paid all relevant fees. 
I would caveat the offer by stating that it becomes void if the bike is: written off; stolen; scrapped; if, for any other reason, transfer of the number becomes practically impossible; or if six months passes and no money is paid for retention.  I think that's fair.  It's your number plate now, you don't owe the seller anything. 

facade

I think none of that will work, as I suspect the seller simply applied to put the number on retention after he sold the 'bike, and before he transferred the keeper to the OP.

The retention should have gone through immediately, but he couldn't then transfer the keeper on the V5 with the private number, as it was rendered invalid.

Applying for a V5 on the private number won't work as it is on retention, applying on the original number will, but is unnecessary, as one is in process to the seller, and applying for a duplicate in a different keeper's name takes ages.

Manxman_in_exile

Sorry if I'm being dense - but is the OP and everyone else at crosspurposes - or am I missing the point?

The OP has bought the 'bike and my understanding is that he wants to keep the "private" reg. on it because he says that he bought that as well as the 'bike.  The problem is that the seller (attempted, for some reason?) to transfer the original plate back onto the 'bike and that is the plate now physically attached to the 'bike.  What's worrying the OP and brought about the original question is that he has nothing to show he owns that 'bike because it's no. plate is XXXXXXXX but his receipt shows YYYYYYYYY (the "private" plate).

Some posters seem to be confused as to whether the the seller is trying to retain the "private" plate (which is not what I'm reading, or at least is not what I understand the OP wants) or has simply screwed up the whole number plate process.

Does that makes sense?  It just seems to me that nobody is addressing the question the OP is asking, or are answering a question he isn't asking.  (????????)

Ditzy_Mitzy

Manxman_in_exile said:

Sorry if I'm being dense - but is the OP and everyone else at crosspurposes - or am I missing the point?

The OP has bought the 'bike and my understanding is that he wants to keep the "private" reg. on it because he says that he bought that as well as the 'bike.  The problem is that the seller (attempted, for some reason?) to transfer the original plate back onto the 'bike and that is the plate now physically attached to the 'bike.  What's worrying the OP and brought about the original question is that he has nothing to show he owns that 'bike because it's no. plate is XXXXXXXX but his receipt shows YYYYYYYYY (the "private" plate).

Some posters seem to be confused as to whether the the seller is trying to retain the "private" plate (which is not what I'm reading, or at least is not what I understand the OP wants) or has simply screwed up the whole number plate process.

Does that makes sense?  It just seems to me that nobody is addressing the question the OP is asking, or are answering a question he isn't asking.  (????????)

My take on it is this: a vehicle cannot, nowadays, be sold without a registration number.  If the number is personalised and the seller wishes to retain it, the seller either has a duty to remove the personalised registration and sell the car without it, under the identity of whatever replacement number is issued by the DVLA; or, this being messier, the seller can contract with the buyer that the buyer will, at some point after the sale, take the number off so that it can be returned to the seller. 
If neither of these has happened, as appears to be the case in this example, the buyer now owns the personalised registration.  There's nothing the seller can do about it, post sale especially as, here, the seller has provided a receipt for the motorbike with the personalised registration on it.  I'd argue that the OP, having gained clear title to the bike, has also gained title to the registration.  The registration itself, unless on retention, doesn't actually exist, as a separate piece of property; it's just a set of numbers and letters that the DVLA has assigned to that chassis number.  OP has bought the chassis number, which at the point of sale had personalised registration XXX123Y or whatever assigned to it, OP owns the whole shebang.  

Manxman_in_exile

Well isn't that what the OP wants?  He said:  "The vehicle came with a private number plate, I was assured that this would be switched over to my ownership along with the ownership of the vehicle."  So the OP wants, and the vendor has sold him, the "personal" plate.  The vendor (perhaps suddenly deciding to keep the reg) has attempted to revert back to the original plate, but has done so too late to do it properly and has screwed it up. 

Will the OP/purchaser get the private reg they want, or has it disappeared for ever?  (And has their receipt got the right or wrong reg. on it?).

EDIT:  What I don't understand is why the OP accepted the 'bike with a different reg. if they thought or wanted to buy the "private" one and had a receipt showing that?  Did they believe the vendor when they said the reg. had expired?  Sorry - can't get my head round how this has happened - whatever "this" is.

sthomasj10

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Sorry if I'm being dense - but is the OP and everyone else at crosspurposes - or am I missing the point?

The OP has bought the 'bike and my understanding is that he wants to keep the "private" reg. on it because he says that he bought that as well as the 'bike.  The problem is that the seller (attempted, for some reason?) to transfer the original plate back onto the 'bike and that is the plate now physically attached to the 'bike.  What's worrying the OP and brought about the original question is that he has nothing to show he owns that 'bike because it's no. plate is XXXXXXXX but his receipt shows YYYYYYYYY (the "private" plate).

Some posters seem to be confused as to whether the the seller is trying to retain the "private" plate (which is not what I'm reading, or at least is not what I understand the OP wants) or has simply screwed up the whole number plate process.

Does that makes sense?  It just seems to me that nobody is addressing the question the OP is asking, or are answering a question he isn't asking.  (????????)

My take on it is this: a vehicle cannot, nowadays, be sold without a registration number.  If the number is personalised and the seller wishes to retain it, the seller either has a duty to remove the personalised registration and sell the car without it, under the identity of whatever replacement number is issued by the DVLA; or, this being messier, the seller can contract with the buyer that the buyer will, at some point after the sale, take the number off so that it can be returned to the seller. 
If neither of these has happened, as appears to be the case in this example, the buyer now owns the personalised registration.  There's nothing the seller can do about it, post sale especially as, here, the seller has provided a receipt for the motorbike with the personalised registration on it.  I'd argue that the OP, having gained clear title to the bike, has also gained title to the registration.  The registration itself, unless on retention, doesn't actually exist, as a separate piece of property; it's just a set of numbers and letters that the DVLA has assigned to that chassis number.  OP has bought the chassis number, which at the point of sale had personalised registration XXX123Y or whatever assigned to it, OP owns the whole shebang.  

Manxman_in_exile said:

Well isn't that what the OP wants?  He said:  "The vehicle came with a private number plate, I was assured that this would be switched over to my ownership along with the ownership of the vehicle."  So the OP wants, and the vendor has sold him, the "personal" plate.  The vendor (perhaps suddenly deciding to keep the reg) has attempted to revert back to the original plate, but has done so too late to do it properly and has screwed it up. 

Will the OP/purchaser get the private reg they want, or has it disappeared for ever?  (And has their receipt got the right or wrong reg. on it?).

EDIT:  What I don't understand is why the OP accepted the 'bike with a different reg. if they thought or wanted to buy the "private" one and had a receipt showing that?  Did they believe the vendor when they said the reg. had expired?  Sorry - can't get my head round how this has happened - whatever "this" is.

Apologies for my late response to this thread, one of those days.
Essentially when I bought the vehicle, I was told the personal registration was included within the sale of the bike. After chasing the seller as I'd not received my V5C I was informed that the reg was no longer valid and that a new V5C was being issued for him to transfer ownership. Naturally a little gutted as the personal reg was a nicety but hey-ho.

What I was getting anxious about is there wasn't much other than my receipt to show my ownership of the bike. The seller has since re emailed me a new receipt to confirm that I bought the vehicle with the reg which is now on it.

I rang the DVLA and was informed it is still taxed, as the tax is applicable to the frame number not the reg, meaning I can still use it. Fortunately I have another motorcycle and a car to use - so it wouldn't have been the end of the world if I did have to garage it for a while.

Since also been told by the seller that they'll send me a small token to cover the costs of having new plates made and the change to my insurance ( charged a £20.00 admin fee to change reg - stealth tax! )

Ultimately I feel a lot better about it at the moment, I've just never had this stress when buying a used vehicle before.

I'm told once they receive the V5 ( no later than Tuesday ) I'll receive email confirmation that this has been transferred, if this isn't the case by this time next week, then I will bite the bullet and apply for a new V5 at my cost.

AdrianC

sthomasj10 said:

I rang the DVLA and was informed it is still taxed

Which means the vendor is still the keeper...

if this isn't the case by this time next week, then I will bite the bullet and apply for a new V5 at my cost.

Given that you've got a V5C/2, it should be free... unless the plate change has gone through. What's showing now on Vehicle Enquiry?

sthomasj10

AdrianC said:

sthomasj10 said:

I rang the DVLA and was informed it is still taxed

Which means the vendor is still the keeper...

if this isn't the case by this time next week, then I will bite the bullet and apply for a new V5 at my cost.

Given that you've got a V5C/2, it should be free... unless the plate change has gone through. What's showing now on Vehicle Enquiry? 

It's taxed by me, the DVLA was unable to give out the name of who'd taxed it but the lady asked what email address was used and mine was a match, I was told as long as I had the old plate on it, I was fine to ride.

I have a V5 green slip yes, but this is good for nothing as it's for the old private reg V5.

On a vehicle enquiry, the private plate is now not recognised, and the original is coming up with the vehicle.