Chargeback dispute?

LI83

Hey! Hoping someone can advise me on this one. 

Ordered something online back in Feb, was due to arrive in April, but it never showed up. Tried contacting the website selling it numerous times, they wouldn't respond to emails or telephone calls. Any mention of the seller online was reports of people experiencing the same problem - money was taken and no items to show for it. 

Eventually I went to my credit card and asked them to do a chargeback. They did it, the 45 days passed, they didn't dispute it, and I thought that was it. 

Now, months after the chargeback was cleared, the seller is emailing me saying I am in debt to them and that I need to pay them X amount. 
If the 45 days have passed and they didn't dispute the chargeback do they have any ability to try and claim that I owe them/they sent me what I ordered? 

I never received what I ordered from them, and they sat on the payment for it (in four figures) for months and probably would have pocketed it if I hadn't gone to my credit card for help. 

Anyone know what I should do in this instance? Obviously I'm going to dispute it with them and remind them of what actually happened with my order, but do they have any right to chase me for payment once the 45 days have passed?  

Thanks all. 

[Deleted User]

As far as I can see, their dispute is with your credit card provider now, not you. I would ignore it. Or Call your credit card provider who handled the chargeback for further clarification. Are they in China by any chance?! 

born_again

Charli159 said:

As far as I can see, their dispute is with your credit card provider now, not you. I would ignore it. Or Call your credit card provider who handled the chargeback for further clarification. Are they in China by any chance?! 

Sadly wrong.
The credit card claimed the money back from the retailer. Who did not contest the chargeback.
So in effect the retailer has not been paid for the goods.
Yes, they have or may not supplied the goods (see below as not clear on the point) which to be fair, we do not know what they are. Could be custom made which might mean they have a genuine claim on the funds.

OP.
Can you clear up this is not clear >>do they have any ability to try and claim that I owe them/they sent me what I ordered? <<
Have you received the goods?
Yes the retailer does have the right to chase via other means to get their money. CC should have advised you of that. We have too.
If they supplied the goods and you kept them, then you owe the money
If they did not supply the goods, then you do not owe the money. Unless they are custom made, which can make a difference.

eskbanker

born_again said:
OP. 

Can you clear up this is not clear >>do they have any ability to try and claim that I owe them/they sent me what I ordered? <<
Have you received the goods?

From OP:

LI83 said:

Ordered something online back in Feb, was due to arrive in April, but it never showed up.

[...]

I never received what I ordered from them

Presumably the expectation of April delivery was documented at the time of order?  If this wasn't subsequently changed by agreement and they didn't challenge a chargeback during the 45 day window within which to do so, then I'd say they don't have a leg to stand on five months later....

Sandtree

eskbanker said:

born_again said:
OP. 

Can you clear up this is not clear >>do they have any ability to try and claim that I owe them/they sent me what I ordered? <<
Have you received the goods?

From OP:

LI83 said:

Ordered something online back in Feb, was due to arrive in April, but it never showed up.

[...]

I never received what I ordered from them

Presumably the expectation of April delivery was documented at the time of order?  If this wasn't subsequently changed by agreement and they didn't challenge a chargeback during the 45 day window within which to do so, then I'd say they don't have a leg to stand on five months later....

Look at many small business forums and they tell you dont bother contesting a chargeback as the process is loaded against the merchant but instead just pursue the client/customer.

At the moment we only have the OP saying that they haven't received the good in which case clearly they should defend any case brought against them however the Merchant may be under the belief that the goods were indeed delivered and therefore would be entitled to pursue the OP for monies... 5 months later is not a long time -v- their statutory timescale for pursuing the matter.

bris

They can chase for the payment anytime up to 6 years.

The 45 days relates to the CC only, that's the time limit to when the CC can reverse the chargeback.

If they think they have a case then for 4 figures  they may very well take it further.

eskbanker

Fair enough, point taken that an unchallenged chargeback in itself doesn't make a difference if OP is seeking to rely on that.

However, we obviously only have one side of the story, but on the balance of probabilities it seems highly doubtful to me that a merchant would have shipped an expensive item via untrackable means and without notification to the customer, and would then have remained silent throughout numerous chasing contacts about non-delivery across multiple channels (even allowing for lockdown), so the prospect of the item having been shipped on time but undelivered, while possible, has to be considered unlikely IMHO.

Having said that, it's not clear on what basis the merchant is now claiming the money - OP, are they claiming to have shipped the item and if so, when?  Is the company UK-based, i.e. subject to UK consumer rights protections?

born_again

eskbanker said:

born_again said:
OP. 

Can you clear up this is not clear >>do they have any ability to try and claim that I owe them/they sent me what I ordered? <<
Have you received the goods?

From OP:

LI83 said:

Ordered something online back in Feb, was due to arrive in April, but it never showed up.

[...]

I never received what I ordered from them

Presumably the expectation of April delivery was documented at the time of order?  If this wasn't subsequently changed by agreement and they didn't challenge a chargeback during the 45 day window within which to do so, then I'd say they don't have a leg to stand on five months later....

Interesting that OP seems to have edited out the part that I quoted in bold, rather than answering the question?
If they have not received the goods, then the only real basis they would have to claim the money from them would be if they are custom goods.

LI83

Googling the merchant returns a stream of negative reviews from dozens of people claiming they also paid for goods that never arrived after the company having taken the money months ago and sat on it. Also seems these reviewers could not get in touch with the merchant directly either. Exactly the same experience I've had with them. 

The company has also recently changed address, based on what it says in the email they sent me, which raises my suspicions even further about them. 

It wasn't a custom item, it was for bog standard office furniture to set up my space to work from home. 

@eskbanker - the email I received is just them listing two invoice numbers and values, neither of which correlate to the order number or the values of the items I ordered, although the total is the same.

Also the dates of the invoices they're claiming I owe are not the same dates as the order I placed, and this email is claiming the orders were "recent" when they were placed months ago! 

It was a snippy email from the "debt collections" department, demanding I make payment via card over the phone or via BACS. I've obviously replied and pointed out that none of the information in the email relates to anything I've ordered from them, and that I never received what I ordered any way. No response so far. 

Thanks all. 

eskbanker

LI83 said:

Googling the merchant returns a stream of negative reviews from dozens of people claiming they also paid for goods that never arrived after the company having taken the money months ago and sat on it. Also seems these reviewers could not get in touch with the merchant directly either. Exactly the same experience I've had with them. 

The company has also recently changed address, based on what it says in the email they sent me, which raises my suspicions even further about them.

Just to be clear, none of that is actually relevant, in the context of your chargeback and any discussion with the merchant or your bank - the simple issue is that the items you ordered didn't arrive, therefore you've taken all reasonable measures to ascertain why not, and then proceeded to chargeback in the absence of response or delivery.

LI83 said:

@eskbanker - the email I received is just them listing two invoice numbers and values, neither of which correlate to the order number or the values of the items I ordered, although the total is the same.

Also the dates of the invoices they're claiming I owe are not the same dates as the order I placed, and this email is claiming the orders were "recent" when they were placed months ago!

You presumably have order acceptance/confirmation documentation (with expected delivery date?) from them?