Parking Eye PCN

KeithP

You are making this far too complicated.

As I said earlier:

The Registered Keeper should send the blue text one size fits all template easily found in that NEWBIES post. 
Send it unchanged - no additions or alterations needed.

You do understand that this appeal won't be successful, don't you?

They hardly ever are.

You are doing this for two reasons:

1) to look reasonable if this ever gets to court, and

2) to get a PoPLA code so that you can appeal to PoPLA.

gemsyjacks

Got it, thank you. I'm doing all of this but in the name of the registered keeper. He's unhappy about me doing this & would rather me just pay it.

Coupon-mad

Yes, leave it as is.

Redx

Then you need to decide on which legal reason are you appealing ?

They are not going to just keel over and play dead !!

In appealing and going to Popla you need to think about which technicality you expect to win , or he does expect to win as RK ??

Poor signage ?
No landowner authority ?
The CRA 2015 ?
The BPA CoP ?
POFA ?

What ?

Don't do it for doing it's sake , think about it

Parking Eye can usually tick most or all the boxes , so a win on a technicality is not common nowadays

Ideally he still needs a landowner cancellation , plan A , not a punt at popla

If you do go to Popla and lose , pay it , promptly , or else it's a probable loss of £175 in court

So pick your battles carefully , do your research , because Parking Eye beat Barry Beavis 3 times in 3 separate courts for an overstay !! The last being the Supreme court , so they already have a judgment they can use

I see nothing in your posts that convinces me that you or he can win

If you want to fight it , he should do what it says on the NTK and name the driver , then you get a PCN as driver in your own name !!

gemsyjacks

Redx said:

Then you need to decide on which legal reason are you appealing ?

They are not going to just keel over and play dead !!

In appealing and going to Popla you need to think about which technicality you expect to win , or he does expect to win as RK ??

Poor signage ?
No landowner authority ?
The CRA 2015 ?
The BPA CoP ?
POFA ?

What ?

Don't do it for doing it's sake , think about it

Parking Eye can usually tick most or all the boxes , so a win on a technicality is not common nowadays

Ideally he still needs a landowner cancellation , plan A , not a punt at popla

If you do go to Popla and lose , pay it , promptly , or else it's a probable loss of £175 in court

So pick your battles carefully , do your research , because Parking Eye beat Barry Beavis 3 times in 3 separate courts for an overstay !! The last being the Supreme court , so they already have a judgment they can use

I see nothing in your posts that convinces me that you or he can win

If you want to fight it , he should do what it says on the NTK and name the driver , then you get a PCN as driver in your own name !!

See this is where it gets SO confusing. Nowhere in any of the advice that is easily found does it say what you've just said. I found so many PE threads that all said fight it in the name of the RK not the driver, everything says NEVER NAME THE DRIVER.

We tried a landowner cancellation, contacted them twice, they aren't interested. It's because they rent the units to the businesses rather than the businesses themselves having any dealings with PE. The guy that owns the site is a Tory who probably doesn't give a !!!!!! about parking fines.

So, the reason I got so confused (apart from the ADHD messing with my mind) is that previously, parking WAS paid through the business I go to there (I paid them a flat rate of £1 a day, they passed that to the site managers who had us on a list with PE). Because of Covid, this all changed & we were told we now needed to sort the parking ourselves but all classes were reduced to 50 mins so we could take advantage of the free 1 hr parking. I went over by 40 mins because after class, I got in the car & my arms & legs felt wobbly so I thought I'd sit for a few mins to let myself rest then lost track of time. Didn't even occur to me that I was breaking their parking "rules" for a second.

There is 1 thing I'm wondering might help. The other night I tried to use the PaybyPhone app to pay for an extra 2 hours but it just tried to charge me the full amount for the overnight rate. (An extra 2 hour is £1, overnight is £4.60) so I screenshotted that but obviously that wasn't the reason for the ticket I actually got. It just might help if I got another one.

I'm now wondering whether I should have forgotten the appeal process & just gone down the hardball "I'm not paying it" route

Redx

Not paying it route means the RK goes to court !! Clearly he doesn't want that , even with ADHD you can understand that if it's not in your name it's nothing to do with you !!

Believe it or not , this has nothing to do with you or your name , it's in his name and so he must deal with it , in his own name , he is the one paying it , or appealing it , or going to court , not you , so it's not you playing Hardball at this time

Read his ntk again , it states if he is not the driver then he can name the driver , to get him out of it completely

We tell people not to name the driver in case they win on a POFA technicality as keeper , but you were asked if they complied with POFA , you said they had , so hiding the drivers details is a decision to make , hide or name the driver because a keeper is deemed liable under POFA

You seem determined to fight this , he isn't , so if you wish to put your name on a new PCN then he names you as driver , until he does that he is responsible and not you , so your circumstances are irrelevant and parking eye have no interest in the driver or what happened to said driver at the time , unless that driver is named by the keeper , under a POFA disclosure

The decision is who is fighting this , the keeper or the driver ? If it's the driver he should name the driver , then leave it with you once a new PCN arrives in your name. You then do whatever you want , appeal or ignore , it's then your choice to make and you can then play hardball if you want , because it's in your name !

So if you want it to be about you , he names you , there is nothing to be gained by not naming the driver

Many companies fail POFA , so the victims do not name the driver

Parking Eye complied with POFA , so hiding the driver details is pointless

gemsyjacks

Redx said:

Not paying it route means the RK goes to court !! Clearly he doesn't want that , even with ADHD you can understand that if it's not in your name it's nothing to do with you !!

Believe it or not , this has nothing to do with you or your name , it's in his name and so he must deal with it , in his own name , he is the one paying it , or appealing it , or going to court , not you , so it's not you playing Hardball at this time

Read his ntk again , it states if he is not the driver then he can name the driver , to get him out of it completely

We tell people not to name the driver in case they win on a POFA technicality as keeper , but you were asked if they complied with POFA , you said they had , so hiding the drivers details is a decision to make , hide or name the driver because a keeper is deemed liable under POFA

You seem determined to fight this , he isn't , so if you wish to put your name on a new PCN then he names you as driver , until he does that he is responsible and not you , so your circumstances are irrelevant and parking eye have no interest in the driver or what happened to said driver at the time , unless that driver is named by the keeper , under a POFA disclosure

The decision is who is fighting this , the keeper or the driver ? If it's the driver he should name the driver , then leave it with you once a new PCN arrives in your name. You then do whatever you want , appeal or ignore , it's then your choice to make and you can then play hardball if you want , because it's in your name !

So if you want it to be about you , he names you , there is nothing to be gained by not naming the driver

Many companies fail POFA , so the victims do not name the driver

Parking Eye complied with POFA , so hiding the driver details is pointless

RedX that's SO much clearer! Thank you.

I did read so much but I never saw anything about this on any PE thread, in fact, my own thread is named "Parking Eye PCN" yet the first few pieces of advice stated absolutely don't name the driver. Unfortunately, I was going through the appeal pages with the RK at the time so we've already hit the buttons to appeal & stated they won't name driver before you put your response up.

So what now? Can we backtrack from this? Can RK now name me as the driver & then I fight it? I'm starting to feel like I should have just paid it in the first 2 weeks now anyway, even though it sucks & is absolutely extortionate compared to how much it costs to actually park there.
By the way: This statement should be returned on the first bit on the newbies page:

Many companies fail POFA , so do not name the driver
If they comply with POFA , hiding the driver details is pointless
So if you want it to be about you , RK names you , there is nothing to be gained by not naming the driver

Redx

In your initial post you did not mention if the NTK PCN complied with POFA or not , so the replies erred on the side of caution regarding naming the driver

The second reply half an hour later by coupon mad told you about POFA and to check for POFA compliance , because checking it can help decide what is next

I used my 7.5 years of coming here , helping people , reading threads etc to dissect your posts and get to the bottom of whose name is in the frame for this , which is not you , so your partner should have posted in order to be given bespoke advice directly to him

Unfortunately , due to the circumstances , you made it all about you , when its currently nothing to do with you

Your partner , the registered keeper , can name the driver any time up until a court claim arrives

So if he doesn't want the hassle and you do , then he names you as driver ASAP

Then you wait for a notice to driver PCN to come with your name on it , which you do whatever you want with it , if it's in your name , it's your problem

The advice I gave is where a keeper was not the driver and the parking company complied with POFA , where a keeper wants no involvement and does not want popla or court , so their main option is what the NTK says , namely if you were not the driver then tell us who was driving at the time

So the better the initial info , the better the replies , but we normally err on the side of not naming the driver , because in many cases the keeper was the driver , but not in this case , but you were given a lot of good advice within 2 hours of posting !!

Barry Beavis was keeper and driver and fought in court on the extortionate charge aspect , he lost 3 times , so that argument is currently dead in the water

The only way to change these matters is if you fill in those government surveys asap before they close , so hopefully the maximum charge may be less than £100 , coupon mad posts the info in most of here posts this month , so fill them in , change the corrupt system

Umkomaas

The driver can be identified at any time before court proceedings are commenced. Given where the RK is in terms of having commenced the appeals process, it might not be as straightforward as it would have been had it been done before. 

But, you are where you are and you might have to make an assertive case to PE to get the switch implemented. There's no template for doing this!

gemsyjacks

That's why I think the para you wrote would be really helpful in clarifying the importance of POFA for newbies like myself. Even reading back through my initial post I am struggling to see where I wasn't clear about my situation - there is no clear grounds for appeal & I was the driver, not the RK plus it's a PE PCN. I didn't mention POFA simply because despite reading a little about it (there's 1 para that just refers to legislation in the newbies thread plus the odd mention of it elsewhere) I had zero understanding of the implications of it on my scenario. All the way through the newbies thread the constant repetition is either "don't name the driver" or "your scenario is no different to all the others" so when I made my post, that's what I had in my mind.

I do thank you all for your experience in this matter, this is my first parking fine & I've gotten myself so completely tangled that I really do appreciate all the advice because I'd still not have a clue. It didn't help that I was away when RK initially got the PCN so I have been in a bit of a rush trying to figure out what to do which is never a good idea. I'll try to un-appeal (if that can be considered a word) & name myself as the driver.

Oh & I've already started working my way through those pages that were linked to me & have sent them on to my dad, sister & partner. I'm in total agreement that there needs to be total reform. It's absolute madness to get a £100 fine for something that would have cost me £1 & cost them nothing, not even inconvenience or lost sales, as the car park was almost completely empty.