POFA Compliant PCN's

RobinHill

Hello, Have we come across any instances of Horizon Parking Ltd Parking Charge Notices that are POFA 2012 compliant. Thank you

Le_Kirk

RobinHill said:

Hello, Have we come across any instances of Horizon Parking Ltd Parking Charge Notices that are POFA 2012 compliant. Thank you

Why not use the forum search facility and see what comes up?

Coupon-mad

Not that I know of; I think of them as non-POFA.

I have an inkling they used to try POFA, a few years ago, but not now.  @BrownTrout might know what they look like now.

RobinHill

Cheers. Excuse my ignorance but what is the problem with them doing so?

Coupon-mad

With them not using the POFA? No problem, easier to appeal and win!

RobinHill

Coupon-mad: Not sure if I explained my question properly. Yes IK if they don't it is good for us (5 wins to-date :-) ) but why don't they just comply with POFA 2012 and then we're stuffed so to speak. Is it really that much of a problem for them to make the procedures / NtK's compliant? 

Umkomaas

RobinHill said:

Coupon-mad: Not sure if I explained my question properly. Yes IK if they don't it is good for us (5 wins to-date :-) ) but why don't they just comply with POFA 2012 and then we're stuffed so to speak. Is it really that much of a problem for them to make the procedures / NtK's compliant? 

It's taken around 6 years for the majority of PPCs to get their heads around PoFA and make their NtKs compliant, and even then I'm sure it's the BPA and IPC who have given them a template paragraph to add to their NtK. 

But why do you think 'we're stuffed' just because they have managed to copy and paste a paragraph into their letter?

RobinHill

"Stuffed" as far as being able to use the POFA ie. the PPC will have met their obligations in that regard, so the keeper can't use POFA reg.s as the PPC has met with the requirements. However my knowledge is limited, and even if there are further avenues available to the keeper to defeat the PCN, it isn't relevant to what I was trying to understand. I was trying to grasp why the PPC's don't simply comply with the POFA. However from what you (Umkomaas) may be eluding to ... the POFA isn't the be all and end all to it, ie. there is more to it, and given that most people are still simply paying up, the PPC's aren't bothered, for now.

Fruitcake

I suspect some of them simply don't understand the PoFA so are incapable of producing a PoFA compliant NTK unless one of their ATAs writes it out for them and then gets them to read it out loud whilst following the words with their fingers.

It may also be laziness. They make enough money from people who just pay up and therefore don't need to use an extra brain cell to change their NTK wording.

Umkomaas

However from what you (Umkomaas) may be eluding to ... the POFA isn't the be all and end all to it, ie. there is more to it, and given that most people are still simply paying up, the PPC's aren't bothered, for now.

In one!  But other issues like signage, authority to issue parking charges, landowner contracts, compliance with relevant Codes of Practice, grace periods can all be as strong as PoFA compliance. So hardly 'stuffed'! 😊

Coupon-mad

I think it's because they struggle to get NTKs out to reach people by day 14 and are aware they are audited on such things, and that to send out a POFA one late is a breach of KADOE and the CoP and a misleading business practice. 

So it's safer to send out non-POFA NTKs because most people pay, ignore or appeal as driver.

And if you are helping people with a Private PCN, please get them (and yourself!!) to do this right now:

Please now make a real difference because not enough people have::

A TASK FOR SEPTEMBER:

The Government is (this month only) consulting about a new statutory code of practice (CoP) and framework to rein in the rogue parking firms.  Read and comment on the draft CoP proposal and the enforcement framework consultation, and get everyone you know to do the same.

You will need to register to comment on the CoP and enter an occupation even if you are retired or a homemaker, but otherwise it is easy to navigate, and comment upon each section/subsection individually. You can save comments to edit later and or submit comments once you are happy with them.

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

You do not need to register to comment on the enforcement framework which can be found here. It has a link on page 5 to make comments.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/913272/Code_Enforcement_Framework_consultation.pdf

At the very least, we say the parking charge level should be £50/£25 or higher level £70/£35, as per Council PCNs in E&W.  

And we say the added fake 'debt recovery' costs are just double counting the cost of letters and MUST GO.  Remove that layer and you remove the ‘drivers’ behind the race to court.

HOW TO DO THE SUBMISSIONS:

Responses into the PAS 232 and MHCLG framework documents are not completely straightforward:

On the MHCLG response, you have to answer the questions on a 1-5 scale from strongly agree to strongly disagree, and then put some commentary. No way to upload documents or alternatives.

 

On the PAS 232, you have to click on each clause and sub-clause to put your comments, and a suggested rewording of their draft.  You can see comments which other people have written! 

 

But, when you click ‘submit’, a message pops up to say your comments have been received, but that only applies to the particular clause you have just addressed.

 

You have to click ‘submit’ separately for each individual clause response.

 

Some people will be caught out by this but can revisit it and add further responses up to 12 October.