Gaining a title for property without deeds

PipJM

Mickey666 said:

PipJM said:

Mickey666 said:

Dox said:

Have you discussed obtaining first registration with the Land Registry, using a Statement of Truth, with a suitably experienced conveyancing solicitor? This isn't going to be a DIY job.

It can be.  I’ve done it, though I admit it required a fair bit of research.  But even using a solicitor, the OP will still need to sort through personal documents that support the first registration, plus make the appropriate ‘statement of truth’, so even using a solicitor there will still be a fair amount of stuff to do - and having done it all, it will only take a little more to fill in the forms.  I found LR very helpful as well, so I guess a lot depends on the attitude of the OP.
Also, bear in mind that without deeds LR may only give ‘possessory title’.  This can be converted into ‘title absolute’ after some time (12 years I think), the idea being that the registration is open to challenge by anyone who can provide better proof of ownership, unlike a ‘title absolute’.   Such a challenge is unlikely in most cases but is something to be aware of and could affect the property value, although I believe indemnity insurances are possible in such cases.

Thankyou, its nice to know its not necessary a lost cause, I will keep trying...... Sorry to be naieve..... What does OP stand for? 

OP = original poster or original post.

Not a lost cause at all.  The more information you can find to support your father’s possession and occupancy of the house the better.  Lost deeds are not uncommon, especially when mortgages are paid off and banks/solicitors no longer need to hold them for security and usually offer them back to the owners.  Land registration was not compulsory until the late 90s so there are many unregistered properties.  These are gradually declining as when sold or inherited the new owners now must register at land registry, whereupon the physical deeds are not longer necessary to prove ownership (though they may be of historical interest for certain properties).  Therefore, you’re not in an unusual situation and there will be plenty of help available to you for a first registration.  So nothing to worry about but a fair bit of red tape to negotiate.

Thankyou so much, this gives me some hope, thankyou for taking the time to reply. 

poppystar

Did your father have a solicitor he used for his Will or anything else? My parents gave the deeds to their solicitor for safe storage when they were returned to them after the mortgage was paid off. I only retrieved them recently. As there is generally no charge for storage there would likely be little or no paperwork.

Marcon

Mickey666 said:

Dox said:

Have you discussed obtaining first registration with the Land Registry, using a Statement of Truth, with a suitably experienced conveyancing solicitor? This isn't going to be a DIY job.

It can be.  I’ve done it, though I admit it required a fair bit of research.  But even using a solicitor, the OP will still need to sort through personal documents that support the first registration, plus make the appropriate ‘statement of truth’, so even using a solicitor there will still be a fair amount of stuff to do - and having done it all, it will only take a little more to fill in the forms.  I found LR very helpful as well, so I guess a lot depends on the attitude of the OP.
Also, bear in mind that without deeds LR may only give ‘possessory title’.  This can be converted into ‘title absolute’ after some time (12 years I think), the idea being that the registration is open to challenge by anyone who can provide better proof of ownership, unlike a ‘title absolute’.   Such a challenge is unlikely in most cases but is something to be aware of and could affect the property value, although I believe indemnity insurances are possible in such cases.

Better chance of full success if you use a solicitor - a competent one. OP, you might want to ask your solicitor why she hasn't suggested this route before taking a view on her competence or otherwise.

If the mortgage was paid off in 2011 and had the usual 30 year term, it's possible that the paperwork is still in the days of paper archives which would have been normal in the early 1980s. Trying to locate them if they are somewhere in an aircraft-sized hanger in deepest Kent or wherever is close to needle in haystack territory, so a reference number could not just speed up the process, it may be crucial, depending on whether Halifax ever computerised all their records. Only way to find out is to ask them.

Manxman_in_exile

PipJM said:

xylophone said:

Did he have the mortgage with the bank you contacted?

Yes, it was with "The mortgage business" which is also Halifax, I wrote to their archive centre and they couldn't do anything without reference numbers.

It's quite possible that Halifax's archive centre does need a reference number or mortgage account number.  But have you asked Halifax's Bereavement Team as an earlier poster suggested?  I suspect this won't be the first time they've dealt with a situation like yours and I'd expect them to have some system in place to pinpoint mortgages from 30+years ago without an account number to help them.

Ganga

When we payed off our mortgage in 2017 i asked the bank for the deeds ,they wrote back saying they could not find them but i checked the land registry files and the house is registered to me and my wife so no problem ,you might not need the deeds to sell.

Mickey666

Ganga said:

When we payed off our mortgage in 2017 i asked the bank for the deeds ,they wrote back saying they could not find them but i checked the land registry files and the house is registered to me and my wife so no problem ,you might not need the deeds to sell.

'no problem' because your house had been registered at LR, in which case the deeds are no longer required to prove ownership.

But that's not applicable here because the house in question is not registered, so not having the deeds IS an issue.  Not an insoluble one, but an issue nevertheless.

ameliarate

Ganga said:

When we payed off our mortgage in 2017 i asked the bank for the deeds ,they wrote back saying they could not find them but i checked the land registry files and the house is registered to me and my wife so no problem ,you might not need the deeds to sell.

Did you have to pay for that service?