Not received nip

sweetsand

ontheroad1970 said:

There is a case on pepipoo where the defendant had the postman as his witness.  He ended up having to appeal all the way to the Appeals courts.  Without deep pockets t can be difficult.  If only there was a wealthy philanthropist that could assist those who need financial assistance in this case since Legal Aid isn't available.

Are you saying the postman declared in court he never posted the letter through the defendants letter box? Sorry, I am confused, please help.
Thanks.

bigadaj

Whoosh....

noitsnotme

sweetsand said:

neilmcl said:

sweetsand said:

Post does go missing. A postperson dropped our mail off a long while back at the wrong address. We got it about 2 weeks later. We know this as we chased up the co and they said they had sent us the letter and then on our call sent us another one then 2 weeks later we received the orginal with the date the co they said had sent it.

I am guess these speeding tickets etc are not sent via recirded delivery, how does someone in a genuine case prove they never recd the orginal?

A few years ago we chased a co for a parcel, they said they had sent it, then a few days later they told us it was signed for at an adress three doors down. So that evening after work, I knocked on the door and with care asked them if they had accpeted a pacel for us it was a small packaged about 12inches by 8 boxed. I was staggered the lady said yes, picked it up in the porch and gave it to us.  For sure the del person did not leave us a card their mistake but if we had recd someoes item and they had not knocked on the door by next day we'd go over there.

Therefore things do get mis-posted so where does the OP stand?

Thanks

They don't have to, if it went to court it would be up to the prosecution to prove that the NIP was sent within the required time period.

Then the OP has a winnable case, IMHO as the OP, their rep can easily counter that with the kind of examples I gave.
Another example, me, the family and other often get jury summons not sure why - some of our friends just ignore them stating they cant proved they have recd the summons, jury summons. We always respond via online as did recently citing we will be on hols, possibly.  The ones that don't respond to the jury summons have never been followed through as IMO they will have a fight on their hands as not real evidcne the person recd the summons.

Please come over and impart your valuable wisdom and legal knowledge in this section - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/parking-tickets-fines-parking

Thank you. ATB

AdrianC

DoaM said:

True. Not everyone can afford (or apply) the Beckham Defence. (The hire car company he used stamps all incoming mail on the date it is received. This proved that the NIP/S172 sent to the hire company was received late).

Definitely not an option that's open to everybody - it wasn't a hire company, it was Bentley UK's press office, who the car he'd been lent was registered to...

Nor can many of us afford Nick Freeman, the "Mr Loophole" lawyer who engineered that acquittal.

TooManyPoints

There is a case on pepipoo where the defendant had the postman as his witness.  He ended up having to appeal all the way to the Appeals courts. 

It is the case of Gidden vs The Chief Constable of Humberside. Peter Gidden was convicted in the Magistrates' Court, lost his appeal in the Crown Court and was only successful when he made a "Case Stated"  application to the High Court. His case is not straightforward but illustrates the difficulties involved even when it is accepted  that the NIP was late:

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/2924.html

sweetsand

noitsnotme said:

sweetsand said:

neilmcl said:

sweetsand said:

Post does go missing. A postperson dropped our mail off a long while back at the wrong address. We got it about 2 weeks later. We know this as we chased up the co and they said they had sent us the letter and then on our call sent us another one then 2 weeks later we received the orginal with the date the co they said had sent it.

I am guess these speeding tickets etc are not sent via recirded delivery, how does someone in a genuine case prove they never recd the orginal?

A few years ago we chased a co for a parcel, they said they had sent it, then a few days later they told us it was signed for at an adress three doors down. So that evening after work, I knocked on the door and with care asked them if they had accpeted a pacel for us it was a small packaged about 12inches by 8 boxed. I was staggered the lady said yes, picked it up in the porch and gave it to us.  For sure the del person did not leave us a card their mistake but if we had recd someoes item and they had not knocked on the door by next day we'd go over there.

Therefore things do get mis-posted so where does the OP stand?

Thanks

They don't have to, if it went to court it would be up to the prosecution to prove that the NIP was sent within the required time period.

Then the OP has a winnable case, IMHO as the OP, their rep can easily counter that with the kind of examples I gave.
Another example, me, the family and other often get jury summons not sure why - some of our friends just ignore them stating they cant proved they have recd the summons, jury summons. We always respond via online as did recently citing we will be on hols, possibly.  The ones that don't respond to the jury summons have never been followed through as IMO they will have a fight on their hands as not real evidcne the person recd the summons.

Please come over and impart your valuable wisdom and legal knowledge in this section - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/parking-tickets-fines-parking

Thank you. ATB

Thanks but no thanks as my time is important and me or the family have never had a ticket
as we always read the rules so have no experience of that

ATB
x

foxy-stoat

I hope this isn't going to turn into a 100 page thread like the one about electric cars, new poster asks 1 question and never comes back.

noitsnotme

sweetsand said:

noitsnotme said:

sweetsand said:

neilmcl said:

sweetsand said:

Post does go missing. A postperson dropped our mail off a long while back at the wrong address. We got it about 2 weeks later. We know this as we chased up the co and they said they had sent us the letter and then on our call sent us another one then 2 weeks later we received the orginal with the date the co they said had sent it.

I am guess these speeding tickets etc are not sent via recirded delivery, how does someone in a genuine case prove they never recd the orginal?

A few years ago we chased a co for a parcel, they said they had sent it, then a few days later they told us it was signed for at an adress three doors down. So that evening after work, I knocked on the door and with care asked them if they had accpeted a pacel for us it was a small packaged about 12inches by 8 boxed. I was staggered the lady said yes, picked it up in the porch and gave it to us.  For sure the del person did not leave us a card their mistake but if we had recd someoes item and they had not knocked on the door by next day we'd go over there.

Therefore things do get mis-posted so where does the OP stand?

Thanks

They don't have to, if it went to court it would be up to the prosecution to prove that the NIP was sent within the required time period.

Then the OP has a winnable case, IMHO as the OP, their rep can easily counter that with the kind of examples I gave.
Another example, me, the family and other often get jury summons not sure why - some of our friends just ignore them stating they cant proved they have recd the summons, jury summons. We always respond via online as did recently citing we will be on hols, possibly.  The ones that don't respond to the jury summons have never been followed through as IMO they will have a fight on their hands as not real evidcne the person recd the summons.

Please come over and impart your valuable wisdom and legal knowledge in this section - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/parking-tickets-fines-parking

Thank you. ATB

 so have no experience of that

Exactly!  So stop giving out wrong advice on things you know nothing about.

ATB!

Car_54

ontheroad1970 said:

There is a case on pepipoo where the defendant had the postman as his witness.  He ended up having to appeal all the way to the Appeals courts.  Without deep pockets t can be difficult.  If only there was a wealthy philanthropist that could assist those who need financial assistance in this case since Legal Aid isn't available.

That case was different, in that the NIP was actually delivered and the postman gave evidence of the date it arrived.

The OP will have to prove that his NIP was never received, which will be difficult or more likely impossible.

ontheroad1970

Car_54 said:

ontheroad1970 said:

There is a case on pepipoo where the defendant had the postman as his witness.  He ended up having to appeal all the way to the Appeals courts.  Without deep pockets t can be difficult.  If only there was a wealthy philanthropist that could assist those who need financial assistance in this case since Legal Aid isn't available.

That case was different, in that the NIP was actually delivered and the postman gave evidence of the date it arrived.

The OP will have to prove that his NIP was never received, which will be difficult or more likely impossible.

I mentioned it to illustrate the difficulties.  It isn't impossible, but there will need to be a lot of background work.  It's because the way the legislation is written the assumption of delivery has to be rebutted on the balance of probabilities.  If it isn't normal for mail in the area to go astray it will be ran uphill battle and the price of failure is very high.  That's why some take the pragmatic approach of accepting the speeding as the MS90 code for S172 is one the insurance companies hate.