We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

British Gas trying to deceive customers to have smart meters installed

Options
1235»

Comments

  • nigelbb
    nigelbb Posts: 3,819 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    nigelbb said:
    nigelbb said:
    nigelbb said:
    There are problems with them especially when you switch suppliers when your smart meter cannot be read by their systems so reverts to being dumb meter.
    Just on this point, if it happens then someone is no worse off that with a conventional meter, and such issues are far rarer with SMETS2 meters. So far my SMETS2 meter has successfully worked with three different providers. I am though currently mid-switch to Scottish Power and I have seen a couple of people post here about cost display issues following a similar switch so I'll see how that goes. The actual usage figures are still displayed OK even then, which is the most important part.

    You do raise a fair point about a meter change causing issues for anyone unaware of how to restart their own boiler.
    From the consumer's point of view a smart meter that becomes a dumb meter when you switch suppliers is worse than useless. If it fails to work as a smart meter when you change supplier then all of the supposed benefits like no meter readings & being able to easily keep an eye on consumption are lost to you. Unless of course there is going to be a government incentivised programme to replace dumbed down smart meters with smart meters that actually stay smart.
    No, you need to distinguish between the in-home display that I was talking about and the smart-meter itself. The IHD can be powered off and in a drawer and the energy supplier will still get the meter readings from the smart meter. The principle benefits to society as a whole (load monitoring etc) also still apply. 
    If the IHD no longer works then one of the key benefits to the consumer is lost. How does the consumer get it re-enabled? How does the consumer confirm that it won’t get broken in the first place? It’s a bit late after they have made a switch & discovered that the IHD is now useless. 
    My point that was originally responded to was that they weren't worse off. You can't reasonably argue against smart meters on the basis that they do give consumers a benefit but this is clearly a bad thing because they might then subsequently lose that benefit  :).
    I referred to the “supposed benefits” to the consumer. Real time monitoring of consumption is one of the “supposed benefits”. It seems more of a benefit to the customer than avoiding the chore of reading the meter.

    A real benefit to the consumer would be to only charge them in real time for the energy consumed but that doesn’t suit the energy companies who prefer to have their customers give them interest free loans so they can play the hedge market. 
  • Ultrasonic
    Ultrasonic Posts: 4,265 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    nigelbb said:
    nigelbb said:
    nigelbb said:
    nigelbb said:
    There are problems with them especially when you switch suppliers when your smart meter cannot be read by their systems so reverts to being dumb meter.
    Just on this point, if it happens then someone is no worse off that with a conventional meter, and such issues are far rarer with SMETS2 meters. So far my SMETS2 meter has successfully worked with three different providers. I am though currently mid-switch to Scottish Power and I have seen a couple of people post here about cost display issues following a similar switch so I'll see how that goes. The actual usage figures are still displayed OK even then, which is the most important part.

    You do raise a fair point about a meter change causing issues for anyone unaware of how to restart their own boiler.
    From the consumer's point of view a smart meter that becomes a dumb meter when you switch suppliers is worse than useless. If it fails to work as a smart meter when you change supplier then all of the supposed benefits like no meter readings & being able to easily keep an eye on consumption are lost to you. Unless of course there is going to be a government incentivised programme to replace dumbed down smart meters with smart meters that actually stay smart.
    No, you need to distinguish between the in-home display that I was talking about and the smart-meter itself. The IHD can be powered off and in a drawer and the energy supplier will still get the meter readings from the smart meter. The principle benefits to society as a whole (load monitoring etc) also still apply. 
    If the IHD no longer works then one of the key benefits to the consumer is lost. How does the consumer get it re-enabled? How does the consumer confirm that it won’t get broken in the first place? It’s a bit late after they have made a switch & discovered that the IHD is now useless. 
    My point that was originally responded to was that they weren't worse off. You can't reasonably argue against smart meters on the basis that they do give consumers a benefit but this is clearly a bad thing because they might then subsequently lose that benefit  :).
    I referred to the “supposed benefits” to the consumer. Real time monitoring of consumption is one of the “supposed benefits”. It seems more of a benefit to the customer than avoiding the chore of reading the meter.

    A real benefit to the consumer would be to only charge them in real time for the energy consumed but that doesn’t suit the energy companies who prefer to have their customers give them interest free loans so they can play the hedge market. 
    The more you write the more you seem to be making a case for smart meters rather than against  :). It is possible to get billed regularly for actual usage rather than paying by direct debit but the charges are higher to do so. Also, smart meters make time of use during the day tariffs possible in a way that old-fashioned meters do not. 
  • prowla
    prowla Posts: 13,977 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I've been with four different energy suppliers in the past 12 months (BG gas & SSE electric, then Pure Planet, and now Shell); does that mean if I'd had smart meters they would've stopped working on changing supplier?
    In my case, I wouldn't be prepared to take a day off work to allow the changeover.
  • MattMattMattUK
    MattMattMattUK Posts: 11,145 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper
    prowla said:
    I've been with four different energy suppliers in the past 12 months (BG gas & SSE electric, then Pure Planet, and now Shell); does that mean if I'd had smart meters they would've stopped working on changing supplier?
    The meter would have probably carried on being smart, all SMETS2 ones are and many SMETS1 still work fine. Even if they stopped being smart they would still work as a meter.
    prowla said:
    In my case, I wouldn't be prepared to take a day off work to allow the changeover.
    They install meters seven days a week, so unless you work seven days a week you wouldn't need to take a day off. If it was in the last 12 months it would have been SMETS2 anyway, so no need to do any "changeover".
  • Ultrasonic
    Ultrasonic Posts: 4,265 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    prowla said:
    I've been with four different energy suppliers in the past 12 months (BG gas & SSE electric, then Pure Planet, and now Shell); does that mean if I'd had smart meters they would've stopped working on changing supplier?
    In my case, I wouldn't be prepared to take a day off work to allow the changeover.
    If it's a SMETS2 meter then you'd have probably had no issues. EOn installed my smart meter in October 2020, and both it and the in-home display have continued to work fine through switches to Pure Planet and then, like you, to Shell. Issues can and do occur but it's certainly not a given.
  • Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir Posts: 89,546 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    nigelbb said:
    nigelbb said:
    nigelbb said:
    nigelbb said:
    There are problems with them especially when you switch suppliers when your smart meter cannot be read by their systems so reverts to being dumb meter.
    Just on this point, if it happens then someone is no worse off that with a conventional meter, and such issues are far rarer with SMETS2 meters. So far my SMETS2 meter has successfully worked with three different providers. I am though currently mid-switch to Scottish Power and I have seen a couple of people post here about cost display issues following a similar switch so I'll see how that goes. The actual usage figures are still displayed OK even then, which is the most important part.

    You do raise a fair point about a meter change causing issues for anyone unaware of how to restart their own boiler.
    From the consumer's point of view a smart meter that becomes a dumb meter when you switch suppliers is worse than useless. If it fails to work as a smart meter when you change supplier then all of the supposed benefits like no meter readings & being able to easily keep an eye on consumption are lost to you. Unless of course there is going to be a government incentivised programme to replace dumbed down smart meters with smart meters that actually stay smart.
    No, you need to distinguish between the in-home display that I was talking about and the smart-meter itself. The IHD can be powered off and in a drawer and the energy supplier will still get the meter readings from the smart meter. The principle benefits to society as a whole (load monitoring etc) also still apply. 
    If the IHD no longer works then one of the key benefits to the consumer is lost. How does the consumer get it re-enabled? How does the consumer confirm that it won’t get broken in the first place? It’s a bit late after they have made a switch & discovered that the IHD is now useless. 
    My point that was originally responded to was that they weren't worse off. You can't reasonably argue against smart meters on the basis that they do give consumers a benefit but this is clearly a bad thing because they might then subsequently lose that benefit  :).


    A real benefit to the consumer would be to only charge them in real time for the energy consumed but that doesn’t suit the energy companies who prefer to have their customers give them interest free loans so they can play the hedge market. 
    Overnight deposit interest rates for corporates are so low as to be immaterial. In comparison to the costs of administering small consumer accounts at a micro level. 
  • prowla said:
    I've been with four different energy suppliers in the past 12 months (BG gas & SSE electric, then Pure Planet, and now Shell); does that mean if I'd had smart meters they would've stopped working on changing supplier?
    In my case, I wouldn't be prepared to take a day off work to allow the changeover.
    If it's a SMETS2 meter then you'd have probably had no issues. EOn installed my smart meter in October 2020, and both it and the in-home display have continued to work fine through switches to Pure Planet and then, like you, to Shell. Issues can and do occur but it's certainly not a given.
    I have had SMETS2 meters for nearly three years. My gas meter was fully functioning when Zog went bust but according to EDF it stopped working from the moment EDF became my SoLR. EDF has yet to explain how they managed to send out a ‘Welcome to EDF Energy’ message, and tariff information to the meter if it was not functioning?

     I switched my gas supply to Octopus a month or so ago, and they have been happily pulling 30 minute data from day one.  My point is that a lot of reported issues with smart meters have more to do with a supplier’s secure adapter software rather than the meters themselves.
  • MWT
    MWT Posts: 10,206 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Fifth Anniversary Name Dropper
    nigelbb said:
    A real benefit to the consumer would be to only charge them in real time for the energy consumed but that doesn’t suit the energy companies who prefer to have their customers give them interest free loans so they can play the hedge market. 
    The only way they can deliver fixed tariffs as a credible option is to take advance payments and hedge the future demand, if you remove one, the other goes with it...
    Plenty of recent examples of what happens when you sell a fixed tariff and don't hedge adequately...


  • Marvel1
    Marvel1 Posts: 7,435 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 7 March 2022 at 8:54AM
    I'm waiting for the same email as on a prepayment meter and will be doing the top up to the max before 1st April, so no smart meter for me (yet).
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 350.8K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.5K Spending & Discounts
  • 243.8K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 598.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.8K Life & Family
  • 257.1K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.