Lost Will Saga - how to borrow money until probate?

dchurch24

Hi,
I had another thread in which I detailed how my uncle passed away leaving my sister and I his house etc... The Royal Mail and/or Probate office lost his will, then descended into a Kafkaesque level of bureaucracy and incompetence that is still going on, nearly 5 months later.

The estate agent told us to list his house as soon as possible (there is an outstanding loan against it, and we/(estate) obviously didn't want to be paying council tax etc.. - which we will now have to do as executors/and/or/estate, due to the aforementioned incompetence dragging things out and us now having to start all over).
We did list the house and it sold within 4 hours. The buyers are pressuring us to get things done (which we can't, of course).
The same estate agent had a flat for sale that needed work, and as my daughter is shortly leaving for university, I no longer need that many bedrooms etc...and decided to no longer rent and the estate agent said I could make an offer on this flat "subject to probate", which I did and it was accepted.
Now with the probate office buggering everything up, and changing their minds at every stage and giving me conflicting information ("send this document to London", London: "No, we don't want it, send it to Manchester" etc...) I'm getting quite twitchy that the whole thing is going to fall apart due to their deliberate stalling.

I have nearly 10% of the purchase price of the flat in cash. Is there some way in which I can borrow the money to complete the purchase so as not to hold things up without incurring huge early redemption penalties or ridiculous interest, on the grounds that probate will be granted at some point?
A bridging loan requires around 30-40% deposit IIRC, and I just don't have that.

AdrianC

dchurch24 said:

The Royal Mail and/or Probate office lost his will

I don't understand this... Surely you didn't post the original without taking a copy?

I have nearly 10% of the purchase price of the flat in cash. Is there some way in which I can borrow the money to complete the purchase so as not to hold things up without incurring huge early redemption penalties or ridiculous interest, on the grounds that probate will be granted at some point?

Yes, a mortgage. Look for one without a high ERC.
(Most mortgages currently are 85% max LtV, so you will need around 15% equity)

davidmcn

AdrianC said:

dchurch24 said:

The Royal Mail and/or Probate office lost his will

I don't understand this... Surely you didn't post the original without taking a copy?

I suspect the problem is that you need the original to get probate, and the alternative is presumably some court process to go through to produce a document of equivalent status.

dchurch24

Yes. We did take a copy. We then completed the "Lost Will" form. They then proceeded to lose that as well. It was only that I had the tracking that (this time) had a signature recorded (the original will was never delivered, and the required signature was never taken) that made them eventually cede that they actually must have this form. The probate office need the original will to show that it hasn't been tampered with. Thankfully, we also took a video to show this.
The issue is, that then the digital application becomes "void" apparently due to the will being lost, and then we had to complete the original form again, but this time on paper, and send it to London. They returned it, saying that we had to send it to Manchester, and that we had to fill the form in, yet again. This was followed by another email saying "thanks for your documents, we'll process them within 8 weeks", that was dated 2 days before the returned document.
The whole thing was driving me around the twist (this is only the half of it), and as such I threw the towel in and got a solicitor. The solicitor said that the probate office had told them that the application wasn't "void" after all and that I needed to phone them to withdraw the application - which I did - only to be told that you can't withdraw applications (not even ones that they themselves consider void) over the phone and that I need to email London so that they can forward the email to Manchester so that they can return the documents that they never recieved.
Got it?

Yeah - neither do I, hence asking about getting a short term loan against the sold property "subject to probate" with only a 10% deposit.
I don't have any "equity" as I don't have a property yet.

AdrianC

You do have equity - 10% of the purchase price, currently cash.

dchurch24

AdrianC said:

You do have equity - 10% of the purchase price, currently cash.

Well, yes. Fair enough.
I've just spoken to a mortgage broker and he says that 10% for an effective "first time buyer" would be enough to get a mortgage for a house or bungalow...but not a flat.

xylophone

Do you really want the hassle of a mortgage application?
You made your offer "subject to probate" and accepted the offer from your buyers "subject to probate" - get your EA to urge patience? 

dchurch24

xylophone said:

Do you really want the hassle of a mortgage application?
You made your offer "subject to probate" and accepted the offer from your buyers "subject to probate" - get your EA to urge patience? 

I have tried that. They were showing the buyers around the property without prior consent (as agreed), and then they emailed me to say that the buyers would clear the property out for us (I bet they would, there was a load of valuable looking things in there!), in an effort to "speed things up".

I made them confirm that they had told them that the sale was "subject to probate" and they did, but I'm not really sure that this is working both ways, hence wanting to get it done as soon as possible before it all drives off a cliff.

greatcrested

Agents will always urge you to market your property, accept offers etc etc- that's how they make money.

But if you're not in a position to sell (no probate and issues with probate office) it's premature and unfair on buyers.

You can't sell till you have Probate.

As for council tax, why are you paying this? There are exemptions when the owner is deceased.

dchurch24

Well...quite. Both the agent and solicitor seem to think that selling subject to probate is quite normal, and happens frequently. Having never been in this position before, I had (and have) no reason to doubt either of them.
It's easy to say "don't do anything until you have a grant of probate" in hindsight, but with a lien on the house a acruing interest, and council tax looming on a property that I don't live in, I can see why I was advised to put it on the market as soon as possible.

The council tax exemption is for 6 months only. After that, the estate or executors are required to pay it. Either way, it's coming from my pocket.

greatcrested

dchurch24 said:

The council tax exemption is for 6 months only. After that, the estate or executors are required to pay it. Either way, it's coming from my pocket.

Not my understanding!

If a property has been left unoccupied following the death of the person who was previously paying Council Tax, it may be exempt.

The exemption is awarded indefinitely, providing the property remains unoccupied since the occupier’s death and no grant of probate or letters of administration have been made.

The exemption will cease either:

• six months after the grant of probate or letters of administration have been made
• if the property is passed to a beneficiary, becomes occupied or has been sold

https://www.lbbd.gov.uk/council-tax-discounts-and-exemptions-for-deceased-persons

If the home is now empty it will be exempt from Council Tax until someone new moves in or probate is granted. Probate is granted when someone has been given the right to deal with a deceased person's affairs. Once probate is granted, if the home remains empty and it has not been sold, it may be exempt from Council Tax for a further six months. After those six months, if the home is still empty and has not been sold, the Executor becomes responsible for paying the Council Tax from the estate of the person who has died.

https://www.kingston.gov.uk/info/200297/council_tax/101/when_someone_dies_–_changes_to_council_tax/2