Retrospective planning permission on a conservatory?

Jeepers_Creepers

Conservatories are generally allowed under PD - I think it's pretty clear that's all the company was saying; yours fell within the permitted size for your plot, etc. 

If your deeds contain covenants that prohibit this (just like some will not allow caravans to be parked on your drive) or the PD rights have been removed (as it appears in your case), the company cannot possibly be expected to determine this in each case - you really expect them to download and analyse the deeds of every property they hope to stick a connie on to?

When did you buy your house? I'd have thought that your conveyancing solicitor would - at that point - have highlighted the removal of PDR as that is quite a significant condition; 'you might not be able to build extension to your house, pal...'.

How old is your house? Is it on an estate of houses built by the same builder? If so, do other houses have connies on them? 

I don't see how an indemnity can help in this case - it cannot prevent the council taking action if they felt inclined to. If they say it comes down, then it comes down. However, why would they? What is this issue to the council's PlanDept? Why should they care? The covenant must have been put in by the builder or original land owner; I wonder if they still really care? I doubt it. As I understand it, they are the ones who would have to take action to have it demolished. What are the chances?!

How old is the actual property?

davidmcn

Jeepers_Creepers said:

The covenant must have been put in by the builder or original land owner; I wonder if they still really care? 

Nobody's mentioned a covenant as being relevant. The removal of permitted development rights is a planning matter.

TN1984

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Conservatories are generally allowed under PD - I think it's pretty clear that's all the company was saying; yours fell within the permitted size for your plot, etc. 

If your deeds contain covenants that prohibit this (just like some will not allow caravans to be parked on your drive) or the PD rights have been removed (as it appears in your case), the company cannot possibly be expected to determine this in each case - you really expect them to download and analyse the deeds of every property they hope to stick a connie on to?

When did you buy your house? I'd have thought that your conveyancing solicitor would - at that point - have highlighted the removal of PDR as that is quite a significant condition; 'you might not be able to build extension to your house, pal...'.

How old is your house? Is it on an estate of houses built by the same builder? If so, do other houses have connies on them? 

I don't see how an indemnity can help in this case - it cannot prevent the council taking action if they felt inclined to. If they say it comes down, then it comes down. However, why would they? What is this issue to the council's PlanDept? Why should they care? The covenant must have been put in by the builder or original land owner; I wonder if they still really care? I doubt it. As I understand it, they are the ones who would have to take action to have it demolished. What are the chances?!

How old is the actual property?

The deeds include some covenants, but they only mention us needing to obtain permission from the developer for anything we do, which we did. There is no mention on the deeds themselves, at least as far as I can see, that specifically mention permitted development rights not applying (but I am not a legal professional so I may well be wrong). The condition they are referencing is in the final planning permission given to the whole development, in which there is some wording I do not understand, but this is the element to which their solicitor is referring.

I completely get it, my property, my responsibility, totally fair enough. I just asked the question as it was one of the first things that came into my head, 'ARGH I specifically asked them if planning permission was needed'. I also sent them a copy of my deeds for their surveyor to check over, but honestly I accept the answers I have received that I can't fob off responsibility, so I am just hoping to find a solution.

In answer to your other questions, we bought the house in 2014 and it was built in 2012. It is a house on a development built by the same builder of circa 140 houses. I honestly have no idea if many/any people have conservatories, though I know planning permission was given relatively recently to someone on a similar sized house around the corner for an extension on the back of their house (probably irrelevant but I mention it just in case). My solicitor at the time did reference the covenants and explained the deeds required us to seek permission from the developer, and I also read all the covenants carefully (or at least I thought I had) at the time we did the conservatory, but I genuinely thought I was complying with those restrictions by obtaining permission from the developer. I did not think to look at the planning conditions given for the development as a whole as I thought any restrictions that apply to me would be on my deeds. 

I see no reason the council would object to it in concept, though as I said in my OP, I guess this is never a guarantee and at best I assume it could cause a delay that could put the chain in jeopardy. If it is confirmed to be an issue, we will just front it up and take whatever happens, I have no interest in living here under a cloud of uncertainty. 

eddddy

TN1984 said:

...and on that specification they had ticked the 2 boxes to say 'no' in reference to building regulations/planning permission being needed.

I guess it's not the core issue here... but if a conservatory company did a survey (or similar) and then wrote on a spec that no planning permission was needed, I think it's reasonable to rely on that. (If they don't understand planning law, they shouldn't be making statements about planning law.)

At the very least, they should have added a caveat like "you must confirm this with your local council's planning department" - and perhaps even a note about withdrawn permitted development rights, conservation areas, etc.

Lungboy

Has the house had the loft converted or any other work done that might have used up your permitted development allowance?

TN1984

Lungboy said:

Has the house had the loft converted or any other work done that might have used up your permitted development allowance?

No other previous alterations.

Heres_the_deal

From my experience this can be a minefield. Permitted development was removed from the property I'm currently buying, where you have to submit a planning application for a conservatory, small garden shed, fence and hedging. The latter are not an issue, but a £206 application fee to put up a £180 6x4 shed is a tad too much!

It was only when I was browsing the online planning applications in the area, I found an application for a garden shed in the same street. I dug further and found the application document from the developer where PD was removed. Even the planning officer at the local council didn't know it was removed, they even went as far as saying they would approve a two metre fence in the front garden if we asked.

TN1984

Heres_the_deal said:

From my experience this can be a minefield. Permitted development was removed from the property I'm currently buying, where you have to submit a planning application for a conservatory, small garden shed, fence and hedging. The latter are not an issue, but a £206 application fee to put up a £180 6x4 shed is a tad too much!

It was only when I was browsing the online planning applications in the area, I found an application for a garden shed in the same street. I dug further and found the application document from the developer where PD was removed. Even the planning officer at the local council didn't know it was removed, they even went as far as saying they would approve a two metre fence in the front garden if we asked.

It seems to be something some councils are doing when granting permission for new developments. Does the wording on the house you are buying say that PD has been removed totally? Does it feature on the deeds at all? I've re-read the wording on the planning consent for our development and it says something along the lines of prior written permission from the Local Planning Authority being required for anything that would usually fall under PD. I am wondering if that is slightly different from PD being removed totally, and perhaps a less onerous process of writing to the Local Planning Authority is required, rather than full retrospective planning permission?

happysellerbuyer

Could you reduce the price to entice the buyers along with an indemnity insurance.

TN1984

Just to update as I know I like to hear 'what happened' on threads I've commented on. We spoke to a local planning consultant a couple of months ago that had come across the issue many times before. She helped us organise and submit the application, which was accepted a short while ago. She also felt the conservatory company's surveyor should really have known about this and certainly not confirmed planning permission was not needed in his survey if he wasn't sure. So I wrote to them and to their credit they accepted it was their error and agreed to cover our costs dealing with application (apparently the surveyor that worked for them at the time is no longer with them and their new surveyor was much more au fait with this planning issue). Thanks all for the responses.