Off peak electricity price increase

tiff_rocks

BenHarrison said:

I have annotated my picture below to help people out with kit names if they require it. Hope it helps

Thank you Ben, that is extremely helpful as 👍

thorganby

BenHarrison said:

thorganby said:

E10 is not competitive and your situation is different to the OP's because they need to retain auto switching of their heating circuits controlled by the meter.  

No private electrician is required, just npower to remove their metering and fit a suitable E7 replacement, which gives the freedom to switch to any competitive supplier on E7 or a single rate tariff.

Your idea is not suitable for the OP.

npower is forcing this situation onto their customers, so get them to remove their lock in dual MPAN metering set up and fit an industry standard E7 meter at their cost.

I disagree, if you look at the picture in the OP, the timer (bottom right & upside down) shows Off-peak period 6pm-6am with afternoon boost 'ON/OFF' red tags 12-3pm OR 1-4pm (BST variation). It is the same metering set-up as I have but I have the latest version OP3 with integrated time switch, 15+ Hours of off-peak, on/off modulation, hence the 2 consumer units. The meter controls the live feed to the consumer unit   
Economy 7 will only give 7 hours of electricity overnight, unless I am mistaken?
Ecomony 10 gives 10 Hours, over 3 different time periods, unless I am mistaken?

Switching to an E7 meter, although widely supported, may not give enough charge overnight to old storage heater units, and you don't retain any afternoon boost functions. I would also require the auto switching timer for my storage heaters, does new E10 metering not retain a time switch feed?

I understand how the OP's meters are wired (unlike the npower rep) and also how yours are currently wired to use the restricted hour tariff that npower is now withdrawing.

There are millions of storage heaters operating using E7 with no problems and having an E7 meter gives you access to the whole market, allowing switching to the best possible rates available, including a single rate if required.

Choosing E10 will give you a very limited choice of supplier, you have found two possible suppliers, which will cost you more and this is a money saving site.

Both you and the OP have a two MPAN set up, on a restricted hour tariff and as npower are forcing this situation onto you, it make sense for you to instruct npower to remove their soon to be redundant meters, which will cost you nothing.

Your suggested idea will not help the OP or any other readers and has only added confusion to this thread, proving that your research was insufficient.

 You have stated:

BenHarrison said:

Hello,
New member to the forum specifically because of this issue, however I have been a long time MSE user and forum observer for advice. 
I hope to add some support to this thread with my current experiences. I am an NPower customer with on an OP3 (13+ hour off-peak) meter set-up, standard SC tariff and have received the price cap letter on 04/09, which along with unit price changes it states "We're also simplifying some of our complex tariffs, which means for this type of tariff, you'll now pay a single price for your electricity, instead of paying different prices at different times of day".

I've completed some research and the only way I can keep close to my current set-up is to change provider, change my 2x meters for 1x Economy 10 meter, join my two consumer units to the DNO isolator using a Henley block, which in-turn is then connected to the new E10 meter. I loose 3 hours of off-peak access, but my main circuit will gain access to the off-peak periods.

Happy to answer questions on my set-up from other users. I had it all re-done as part of a major renovation so most things have been looked at.

Thanks for reading, Ben

This is incorrect and not an option because your top consumer unit (heating) needs to be active only during off peak hours and your bottom consumer unit (everything else) needs to be active 24 hours, so they cannot simply be "joined together" as you suggest.

No private electrician is required to make any changes, as it is not the customers responsibility to rearrange wiring to ensure that heating operates only when it should during off peak hours, as it always has previously.

The meter fitter will simply remove your meter tails from the old meters and connect them to the new meter.

npower's owner eon has done this for it's customers on restricted hour tariffs and if you search you will find several thread discussing this very issue.

Currently both you and the OP have one 24 hour meter and one restricted hour meter and these will be replaced by one meter that will provide an off peak supply to control the heating circuits and all other circuits will benefit during the off peak hours.

Heating using electricity is by far the most expensive option and you can disagree and choose E10 if you want but that is not the money saving way!

I have not used any of the big six suppliers for several years now and have never had any problems with the many smaller suppliers that i have used.

thorganby

Rather than discussing the matter, he has childishly removed his posts (that have been quoted) so we will never know what he did to resolve this issue.

  

rob1j

Reply to thorganby Posts.
There are those of us who appreciate this discussion and I find that thorganby's contributions carry a lot of good sense and technical competence. I am beginning to believe that his suggestion of dual meter replacement to an Economy 7 meter is the best hassle free solution (not familiar with Economy 7 will have to do some study). Of course others may wish to build their own "power station".

Having looked at the NPower letter I find their insistence that each "customer" contact them, no doubt to negotiate a custom solution, is unsatisfactory. Why not propose a good solution they are happy with, not suggest that I use off-peak at normal prices. No information is given as to the cost per kWh for off-peak just some nebulous estimates of how much each customer can save! Also, I must say that paying by direct debit is unsatisfactory; my experience with NPower accounting is nothing but chaos. I find providing meter readings and paying the bill notified on-line is more satisfactory.
To try and get an official opinion on NPower's course of action I have contacted my MP who has written to the Minister of energy. Perhaps others may consider doing the same. At the very least it will make the general dissatisfaction known and , you never know, you may feel better about "biting the bullet".

rob1j

I have begun looking at the NPower web site and I find this:-
"An Economy 7 meter records your usage on 2 rates – a day time rate and a cheaper night rate. So any electricity you use during a set 7 hour period at night typically costs about 48% of what it would during the day."
and then
"Any electricity you use during the day will cost you more than it would on our standard single rate tariff. So if there are people at home using electricity during the day and you don’t have storage heaters or a hot water tank, then an Economy 7 tariff probably won’t be for you"
What am I missing?

Gerry1

You're missing the fact that it's not genuine half price electricity because the E7 day rate is higher than the normal single rate.  The daily charge is also usually higher.

So if you don't have a  roundabout you're missing out on the swings.

It's a bit like Tesco saying that you can save a fiver on a Dr. Oetker pizza because it was on sale for a month at £7.50 in the Lerwick store , specially when the going rate as Asda, Aldi and Lidl is nearer £1.50.

That said, some smaller suppliers are still cost effective with night time E7 usage as low as 15 - 20%, so E7 can still make sense even if you don't have storage heaters or an immersion heater.  Obviously the savings will be small, but if you have an E7 meter it's worth keeping.  You can often switch to single rate without a meter change because many suppliers will just bill both registers at the same rate (except Bulb, who are awkward).

For someone without gas it could even be worthwhile being on E7 in the winter and switching to single rate in the summer.

thorganby

rob1j said:

I have begun looking at the NPower web site and I find this:-
"An Economy 7 meter records your usage on 2 rates – a day time rate and a cheaper night rate. So any electricity you use during a set 7 hour period at night typically costs about 48% of what it would during the day."
and then
"Any electricity you use during the day will cost you more than it would on our standard single rate tariff. So if there are people at home using electricity during the day and you don’t have storage heaters or a hot water tank, then an Economy 7 tariff probably won’t be for you"
What am I missing?

It depends on your usage and you need to get rid of the soon to be redundant meters and E7 meters give you the best option.

Remember that with E7 metering installed, you are then free to use the best available tariffs across all suppliers and many will simply add together peak and off peak registers and charge at a single rate if that is better for you..

Only you can decide what you require but if you use a comparison site e.g. Citizens Advice who display all suppliers you will find that there are many cheaper suppliers than npower.

rob1j

Thanks for that thoeganby and Gerry1
So let me ask the killer question. I am part gas, for heating downstairs. Bedrooms are storage heaters. Cooking etc. is all electric. Can I swap my out of date dual meters for an economy 7 meter which supplies day rate all the time but switches the storage heaters on at night at night rate?
At the moment NPower are pushing me to have day-rate on both circuits. This means the storage heaters would be running  at 17.755 instead of 12.233!

Gerry1

Yes, you can but you'd have to check whether npower would charge you for the meter change.  Almost certain to be cost effective.  You would then be able to switch to a competitive supplier.  Note that the storage heaters will be cooler in the evenings because there will be no afternoon boost with E7.  But storage heaters aren't really suited to bedrooms, they're likely to make the room too warm when you're asleep but too chilly when you go to up bed.

But why on earth have any storage heaters when you have gas?  Plumb in some wet radiators upstairs !

thorganby

rob1j said:

Thanks for that thoeganby and Gerry1
So let me ask the killer question. I am part gas, for heating downstairs. Bedrooms are storage heaters. Cooking etc. is all electric. Can I swap my out of date dual meters for an economy 7 meter which supplies day rate all the time but switches the storage heaters on at night at night rate?
At the moment NPower are pushing me to have day-rate on both circuits. This means the storage heaters would be running  at 17.755 instead of 12.233!

Yes the standard E7 meter will give control of your heating circuits and this seven hour off peak rate applies to the whole property.

The meter has two registers to record either off peak for seven hours or peak rate for seventeen hours.

Cheeky npower want their cake and to eat it, offering to supply you with twenty four hour standard rate and not have the expense of changing your antiquated metering set up, whereas their parent company eon offered to fit E10 (not competitive with limited suppliers) or E7 when they removed their restricted hour tariffs!