Dealer *caused* a fault they can't fix

onlyfoolsandparking

Ah the Capri, what a car I had a few, the 3.0S being my favourite, I have used NOS parts plenty of times although they are getting even rarer these days and that's why I sold all my classics.

losinj1

Thanks, all, for your insights, and my apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

Well surmised, @facade, a 'Guzzi it is!  A 1200 Sport, with the later 4V heads.

The new cylinder looked identical externally, but with the latest part (same part no.) the company reduced the thickness of the barrel liner, so there is now some space around the bottom of it where it sits within the engine block.  (I don't know if later editions of this engine have a closer-fitting block.)  This is why the dealer sought an assurance from the factory, that it was compatible.  They were advised that provided it was torqued correctly there would be no issues.

There was never any oil leak with the original cylinder, but it showed up after just 50 miles with the new one.  A second new cylinder (plus piston and gaskets) was authorised and fitted, but the oil leak persisted.  The studs were then found to be of unequal length, which apparently can cause a leak, but they addressed this issue.  After 300+ miles of test rides the leak has resurfaced.  Back to consulting with Piaggio, as the dealer can't see that they've been doing anything wrong and they evidently regard it as a materials issue.  They're also making an effort to try and locate a NOS part matching the original cylinder.

It's only been a minor weep, but as they haven't worked out what's actually causing it and whether it could get any worse, they are seeing it as their problem to fix because the bike was completely oil-tight before they worked on it. 

As to what I want....  I don't really feel like thumping the table, as having been happy with their work over a number of years and other issues I have faith and trust them.  That trust extends to not finding they've trowelled in sealant to try and fix it.

As much as the bike is a joy to ride with a massive grin factor, I've been thinking of selling as it's on the heavy side for me.  However, like me the bike's not getting any younger, and its time with the dealer seems to be open-ended.  It's also costing them more workshop time.  If I insisted they return it I'd then be faced with making full disclosure to a buyer about an oil leak that seems unsolvable.  A certain buyer might be okay with it, but at what reduction to the market value of the bike?  I'm not looking to buy another bike, so I wouldn't expect the dealer to be keen on buying it off me as it'd still need fixing before they could resell it.  Think I'm really a bit stuck on knowing what to do.

onlyfoolsandparking

Hmmm yes that is a tough one with what to do with it, quite a limited market for Guzzis (I hardly see any at the bike meets I go to, guess the biking community don't like them?) and the one you have (no disrespect intended) isn't really sought after, it's slow, too heavy and to top it off has a really poor residual value so yes quite a quandary in what to do.

Sounds like the dealer is doing their best for you and your right not to knock them, I think it comes down to the same old conclusion, some bikes are worth spending big money on because they're worth big money (Kawasaki Z1 or H2 750 being good examples) and some unfortunately aren't. If it were me I would persevere with 'trying' to get it fixed and then either enjoy it for a few more years OR find a Guzzi enthusiast (good luck with that) and sell it. 

facade

I'm on my second guzzi, I got rid of the first because it got wet, and like Harleys, guzzis are water soluble

I regretted it pretty much the next day, but managed to resist buying another one for a couple of years. Once you have ridden one, other 'bikes just don't feel right.

This one is never going out in the rain, and spends Winter inside The Most Expensive Polythene Bag in The World, along with 2kg of dessicant.

One of the drawbacks of a guzzi is there are very few dealers about, and bike factors don't even keep oil filters.

losinj1

I'd pretty much come to the same conclusion about persevering and hoping for a fix.  And why not, when it's not costing me anything too significant (a dealer contribution to road tax and insurance would be nice, but I'm not about to hold my breath)?

I've another bike, which gets me out with my mates, but you're right about there being nothing quite like a Guzzi once you've owned had an affair with one.  This is my third, and I wish I wasn't so emotionally attached, otherwise the decision to sell would be easier.  Okay, so it's heavy and not exactly quick, but relative to other Guzzis it's no slouch, and it has other endearing riding qualities for those not looking to scream about everywhere. 

The thing I wouldn't leave home without on a trip with this Guzzi is a trickle charger , even with no rain in sight.  Otherwise the battery can die overnight; other times it can last for a couple of weeks without being plugged in

onlyfoolsandparking

losinj1 said:

I'd pretty much come to the same conclusion about persevering and hoping for a fix.  And why not, when it's not costing me anything too significant (a dealer contribution to road tax and insurance would be nice, but I'm not about to hold my breath)?

I've another bike, which gets me out with my mates, but you're right about there being nothing quite like a Guzzi once you've owned had an affair with one.  This is my third, and I wish I wasn't so emotionally attached, otherwise the decision to sell would be easier.  Okay, so it's heavy and not exactly quick, but relative to other Guzzis it's no slouch, and it has other endearing riding qualities for those not looking to scream about everywhere. 

The thing I wouldn't leave home without on a trip with this Guzzi is a trickle charger , even with no rain in sight.  Otherwise the battery can die overnight; other times it can last for a couple of weeks without being plugged in

Hey and why not, if you like em you like em I always say to my biking buddies it wouldn't do for us all to like the same bike, in fact if we did all like the same bike there wouldn't be as many different models/types available. I enjoyed owning the classics I had for a good few years but not being a mechanic myself I always used to find my self hoping and praying the bikes would start and then when they did hoping I wouldn't break down.

I was quite lucky in some respects as one of my favourite classics was my 1977 Kawasaki z1000A1 (stunning looking bike) never did let me down although it did cost me a small fortune to maintain and that was just balancing the carbs lol, that too was real heavy, slow and was like riding a barn door but it drew looks and I did like it.

Since I've moved more into modern bikes (current one BMW S1000R) the starting/breaking down worry is practically gone and I really do enjoy just putting key in, starting and off I go and the technology on modern bikes wow, really something special, guess it's all down to choice but getting back on topic best of luck with getting bike sorted, hopefully you'll get a few days out on it before the end of our short biking season. 

Jumblebumble

AdrianC said:

Lomast said:

Bear in mind independents and hobbyists can fit whatever brand of parts they like whereas main dealers will only fit genuine oem parts and it's these parts that may not be available

Also, dealers can't modify parts or use external services to modify/repair them - they can only replace with new.

Something like this, there may be a resolution developed where the block can be sleeved or a seal added.

Some main dealers will use third party bits if it suits them and they are willing  to break their ISO9000 standards
I ordered a key for a Zafira from a Vauxhall main dealer
The plastic end would not stay on the key
Upon close questioning they admitted they had purchased a pattern blank from a locksmith  company
I was not impressed
As far as the OP is concerned I am astonished that a competent engine re builder cannot say if the undersize parts are fit for purpose or not

AdrianC

ISO9000 is a great catch-all excuse...

It's the quality management standard. They don't have to be any good, just have lots of systems in place to monitor and document how bad they are.

Whether they use non-genuine parts is nothing whatsoever to do with ISO9000, and everything to do with their franchising contract with the manufacturer.

bigadaj

AdrianC said:

ISO9000 is a great catch-all excuse...

It's the quality management standard. They don't have to be any good, just have lots of systems in place to monitor and document how bad they are.

Whether they use non-genuine parts is nothing whatsoever to do with ISO9000, and everything to do with their franchising contract with the manufacturer.

Well if their ISO9000 compliant procedures state that they use genuine parts it has everything to do with it. No fundamental reason why they should, but their accreditation is reliant on their procedures being complied with, nothing to do with whether those procedures are correct, sensible or anything else.