Bankrupcy qurestions

Skc46

Hi,
I am likely to going to be filing for bankruptcy in the near future after losing my job in February this year. Unfortunately, my debts are due to gambling. I wrote to my creditors in April and am writing again while setting up token payments in the meantime (although I'm not sure how much help it will be...). I currently live with my parents after moving back in August 2018. I now only receive £380 UC. Apart from a relapse where I shamefully spend my UC in March/April I haven't gambled since January (where I could've got it all back assuming I didn't reverse the withdrawals, but that's neither here nor there now).
I have some queries I'm trying to find the answer to. Quite a few of them actually and I understand some of them might fall along the lines of "it depends".
1.) My debts are high (£35k) but I was able to meet the repayments until I unexpectedly lost my job in February. I assume a BRO is still likely?
2.) Do BROs essentially extend the discharge date of the bankruptcy or are they separate? E.g. If one had a BRO of 5 years, does that mean you will be discharged after 5 years instead of 12 months?
3.) Do BROs also extend the IPA and 'trigger' length? E.g. a.) If you had a BRO of 5 years, would you have a IPA for 5 years instead of 3? b.) Considering question 2.) if the discharge length is extended by a 5 year BRO does that mean you could be issued with an IPA any time during that 5 year BRO?
4.) I also owe my parents. If an IPA is set up, as well as paying creditors can I also pay my parents proportionally?
5.) I abandoned my main bank account when I lost my job in February due to the overdraft fees of £250+ per month breaching the limit. I now only use a no overdraft cash card with VISA functionality ("Revolut") - this is where the UC goes. Let's just say... I've been drinking a lot since feb and also ordered things from the internet. Will the OR be looking through those transactions? Could this have a negative effect on the bankruptcy proceedings?
6.) I understand that IPAs aren't set up if one only receives UC. In this case does it matter what the UC is spent on? Or will a budget still have to be adhered to and reviewed regularly during the bankruptcy period?
7.) When I get a job and if I must stay in this area (I used to live in a different part of the England prior to 2018) I plan on paying my parents rent. However I did not pay rent before. Would paying rent be an issue in this case?
8.) I have no substantial possessions apart from a fairy pricy TV I bought on credit (buy now pay later) last year, with the intention of paying it off in July. When I lost my job, my parents paid it and so it belongs to them. Would this TV have to be sent back?

Also, I'm just wondering what would happen if I just kept on paying token payments. If I have no job, no possessions (apart from said TV) and only receive UC, what would be the result of keeping on with the token payments without filing for Bankruptcy? I understand I can be taken to court and apart from being ordered to pay more from UC (which wouldn't be much)... I'm wondering what else could happen?
Thanks guys.

bradders1983

How much do you owe your parents?

I suspect including them in a petition opens up all manner of issues.

Skc46

Wow, just noticed the woeful spelling in the thread title. Can't seem to edit it though...
Well, they have a loan out in their name for £12k and are currently paying it back over a period of 5 years. I know I can't preference them as creditors but if there's any way to pay them if I was issued an IPA at least I could give them something. I was also thinking about including it in any rent - paying the going rate in the area for shared accommodation?

bradders1983

If the loan is in their name you probably cant include it. And this is where the issues start.

Skc46

I see. Rent is fairly expensive around here... would it be fair to pay up to the going rate while still living here (assuming I got a job obviously)? I'm just concerned that I wasn't paying before. Firstly because when I moved back I was unemployed (that was the reason I had to move back, left my old job for join friends' small biz, disaster but long story) and then because I had all this gambling debt to pay off when I was employed.

sourcrates

You will only get a BRO is you have been dishonest in some way, or you refuse to cooperate with the OR.

BRO`s can extend up to 15 years, IPA you will only get if you have £20 or more disposable income, they normally last 3 years, but if your sole income is from benefits, you won`t get one.

Discharge date can be extended at the OR`s discretion, but its normally 12 months.

Your goods are not taken, unless you have a few old piccasso`s hanging on your living room wall.

Nothing you have said is likley to cause you any problems, gambling is viewed more as an illness than a form of deception, the OR will basically ask you questions on how you have ended up where you are, its more of a box ticking excercise than anything.

MalMonroe

Hi, have you thought of contacting one of the free debt help agencies? I used StepChange but there are others of course, my life was completely turned around for the better after I did contact them, which was 7 years ago. I was really in a bad place but they suggested a solution and I am now so much better.  Having been in that bad place, I do know how very difficult it is to try to sort things out in your mind, much less in real life.

Here is the link for StepChange :  https://www.stepchange.org/

You seem to have such a lot going on, if you can at least discuss your finances to start with, you will be able to get an idea of what you can do and how to prioritise your debts, as well as the other problems.

Also, you can get help with gambling, which is now being acknowledged as a disease, as is alcoholism - it's an addiction and people are willing to help. There's even an NHS information page, sorry to keep giving links but here's another one https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/gambling-addiction/

Your parents seem to be really supportive, which is what parents should be in my opinion. Maybe have a word with StepChange (or similar) and then discuss with your parents what they'd like you to do with respect to your owings to them. Hopefully, they will be happy to be last on your list of creditors. 

There ARE ways to solve your problems, it's probably just going to take a while. Unless you win the lottery, that is! Try not to judge yourself too badly, we all make mistakes, and in some cases keep on making them too, as I know all too well.  You're now owning up to those mistakes and actually coming on here and opening up is a great first step. Good luck!

Minkym00

1.) As you say, it depends, but on the basis of what you have said it’s unlikely. You are entitled to gamble your own funds, the problem comes when gambling whilst insolvency. There are two tests of insolvency - asset / liability and income / expenditure. You were definitely insolvent on an asset / liability basis but, given that you were making the minimum repayments then you weren’t income / expenditure insolvent until you lost your job. So only gambling when both tests are met can be criticised, i.e. after February. I suspect the sum you gambled in April is not significant enough to be a contributing factor to your bankruptcy. Therefore i highly doubt it would be viewed that there has been any misconduct here.

2.) No, you are still discharged after 12 months with a BRO, but you still have the same restrictions as in bankruptcy. 

3.) No. An IPA can ONLY be put in during the 12 months of bankruptcy.

4.) No. However won’t get an IPA if you are on UC only so can make payments towards them if you wish.

5.) It’s very likely that the OR will review your bank statements given this is not a “vanilla” case where gambling is involved. Have you incurred further credit after February? If so how much?

6.) No, see answer to 4.

7.) Renting from parents is not a problem, but best to get a proper AST agreement drawn up.

8.) How pricey?

Skc46

Sorry guys, been having issues with online access. Appreciate the replies.
@sourcrates
Thanks, that's reassuring. My main concern is my situation deteriorating even further. In 2016, I had no debt problems and only started gambling problematically in 2018. I had to move back with the folks after trying to leave the rat race.
@MalMonroe
I contacted Stepchange a few months after I got that job, however they couldn't do a lot for me as I could meet the minimum repayments. I also contacted citizen's advice. I'll check out that link, thanks. You're right parents are supportive. And it's bad really because they are nearing retirement - that's one reason why I want to move out. I'm definitely not a young man anymore. I contacted Stepchange again (and the National Debtline) and they recommended token payments or some form of insolvency, pointing toward bankruptcy).
@Minkym00
With regards to question 5: I haven't incurred any further credit, just have UC paid to a cash card with VISA functionality. I have been spending a lot on drink and some internet purchases.
Number 8: It was a £1700 TV on buy now pay later for a year that I intended to pay before the job loss.
I've also been searching around and came across various sources on what to do. The ads on google about wiping out debt usually end up meaning IVAs - but with extra fees. I saw a guy on youtube with a fair few followers who thinks token payments can potentially result in your capital from creditors to be reduced drastically if you keep making token payments. What's done is done and one should own up to it, but I'm still wondering about what would actually happen if you kept making them.

I don't want to post a link at the moment because I'm not sure if links are allowed, and of course youtubers are interested in views. And it could be BS.
Once again, thanks for the replys.

fatbelly

Let me correct one thing: The ads on google about wiping out debt always end up meaning IVAs.
An IVA has no advantages to you over bankruptcy as you have no asset to protect.

Token offers are a short term strategy. Please get advice from reputable sources. Now I'm going to link you to debt camel. She is a trained practicing professional adviser with CAB

https://debtcamel.co.uk/token-payment-debt/

Skc46

fatbelly said:

Let me correct one thing: The ads on google about wiping out debt always end up meaning IVAs.
An IVA has no advantages to you over bankruptcy as you have no asset to protect.

Token offers are a short term strategy. Please get advice from reputable sources. Now I'm going to link you to debt camel. She is a trained practicing professional adviser with CAB

https://debtcamel.co.uk/token-payment-debt/

Yup otherwise it's too good to be true really. Thanks for that link.
Indeed it's a short term strat. I think the guy I was looked at via youtube reckons you keep doing the token payments and then eventually they'll reduce the payment to a fraction of the original capital. Probably this is unlikely in the real world and depends on luck and somewhat how far you're willing to go to not deal with it. Bankruptcy is usually a trade off where you pay back at least some debt over 3 years with an IPA or if you have no money left over it's written off after 12 months. And some would say moral questions about it as well