Late Invoice? Customer not paying?

joesanders46

Marcon said:

joesanders46 said:

Mmills said:

Whilst a year after is a long time to wait to invoice it and probably does cause "problems" with budgets at their end - it doesn't change the fact that they owe you for your work.  Out of interest why did it take so long to invoice?

If you have a purchase order number from them, obviously make sure to refer to that multiple times.  I am sure a lot of info should already be included in any sale agreement as to when invoicing should take place.  

Maybe give them a small extra period to pay it due to the delay at your end.  If they refuse, then you have to make a decision - take it to small claims court (unsure of the invoice value), or write it off.  It all depends on whether you are likely to need to use them again or not?  Could you taking them to court affect work within the industry?  

Whilst I'm sure you may have a fight on your hands initially, their argument for non-payment doesn't hold up, and threats of court action may make them concede so that they don't have to pay any additional costs.

Many thanks for your response - the delay was purely down to poor admin-keeping. Unfortunately there was no PO raised - it is just freelance work confirmed over e-mail. I offered them instalment pay, but they are adamant they are only paying the most recent fashion season invoice only, not the season before. So regardless of what I offer they are always going to refuse the older invoiced work. Yes small claims court is an option, but before I threaten that what can I say I am covered under? Am I covered under the Limitations Act whereby I can invoice for work up to 6 years later? As I believe that may be the time limit to invoicing? As their grounds for not paying are for purely "I've submitted the invoice too late".... How can I challenge that?

Many thanks

Don't get yourself tangled up in legal arguments or start bandying legal jargon around. If you had agreed a sum for the work (and I trust you did?), then the relevant amount should have been entered in the fashion company's accounts as a creditor. If they didn't do that, and your poor book-keeping meant the invoice was a year late in being submitted, it's irrelevant: they need to pay unless there is a contractual agreement that invoices must be submitted within xx months of work being completed.

=and read carefully. Above all, get on with it!

Hi Marcon - thanks for response - there was no agreed amount as it was hourly work until the collection was finished. I agree I don't want to get tangled up in jargon - but it's got to the point on e-mail now after going back and forth asking for payment where they are not budging. But regardless of jargon I want to understand myself that there is no time limit to invoicing, regardless of a company filing their accounts?

joesanders46

Marcon said:

joesanders46 said:

Mmills said:

Whilst a year after is a long time to wait to invoice it and probably does cause "problems" with budgets at their end - it doesn't change the fact that they owe you for your work.  Out of interest why did it take so long to invoice?

If you have a purchase order number from them, obviously make sure to refer to that multiple times.  I am sure a lot of info should already be included in any sale agreement as to when invoicing should take place.  

Maybe give them a small extra period to pay it due to the delay at your end.  If they refuse, then you have to make a decision - take it to small claims court (unsure of the invoice value), or write it off.  It all depends on whether you are likely to need to use them again or not?  Could you taking them to court affect work within the industry?  

Whilst I'm sure you may have a fight on your hands initially, their argument for non-payment doesn't hold up, and threats of court action may make them concede so that they don't have to pay any additional costs.

Many thanks for your response - the delay was purely down to poor admin-keeping. Unfortunately there was no PO raised - it is just freelance work confirmed over e-mail. I offered them instalment pay, but they are adamant they are only paying the most recent fashion season invoice only, not the season before. So regardless of what I offer they are always going to refuse the older invoiced work. Yes small claims court is an option, but before I threaten th

Don't get yourself tangled up in legal arguments or start bandying legal jargon around. If you had agreed a sum for the work (and I trust you did?), then the relevant amount should have been entered in the fashion company's accounts as a creditor. If they didn't do that, and your poor book-keeping meant the invoice was a year late in being submitted, it's irrelevant: they need to pay unless there is a contractual agreement that invoices must be submitted within xx months of work being completed.

Thanks Marcon - I agree not to use jargon - but it has got to stage back and forth where he is refusing to pay - but I also want to understand myself the legal time limit to submitting an invoice? I simply don't want him to say "my invoice was late" - I need to refute it. The work did not have an agreed total amount but hourly rate. 

Barny1979

Who is denying payment, is there a way of circumventing that individual, or is it a one-man band company?

joesanders46

Barny1979 said:

Who is denying payment, is there a way of circumventing that individual, or is it a one-man band company?

Hi Barny, 
One-man band company 

Manxman_in_exile

How much money are you talking about and how important is it to you?  Do you want to sue this person if you may have to work with or for them in the future?

Simply tell them they owe you, as agreed,  £xxxx for the work done by you and delivered to them between yyy and zzz.  Point out to them that the fact their financial year has closed has no relevance to the debt and that you have up to six years* to pursue it.  Don't bother getting into the detail of why that is or anything else - it's not for you to explain why they must pay, it's for them to explain why they shouldn't, and the fact it's past their year end is NOT a reason.

If they continue to delay you need to decide whether you want to sue them.  If you do, you then send them a Letter Before Claim explaining that they have up to 14 or 21 days (you decide) to pay otherwise you will issue a court claim against them.  (Worry about what goes into the letter before claim when you reach that point - if you do).  But remember, unless you are willing to go through with actually making a claim, it looks very weak on your part if you threaten to do so but do not carry it through.  So do not go down the Letter Before Claim route unless you are ready to sue them.

If you are going to sue, do you know exactly who you are suing?  Is it an individual or a (limited?) company?  Have you the correct address where a claim can be served? 

If you are providing services as a business I suggest you find a lawyer who can help you draw up a proper contract that will speed up payments from future clients - I'm afraid your current approach seems very amateurish.  (And so does that of your client - they don't sound as if they know what they are doing** either).  You might find you get more useful advice to this question on the Small Business board where they deal with this sort of thing all the time.

*As somebody else mentioned - there was nothing agreed with the client that you had to submit your invoice within a certain time period?

**  If they knew what they were doing they should have made a provision in last years accounts in respect of the money owing by them to you, even if they hadn't received an invoice yet.  Do you really want to do business with such clients?

Brynsam

joesanders46 said:

Thanks Marcon - I agree not to use jargon - but it has got to stage back and forth where he is refusing to pay - but I also want to understand myself the legal time limit to submitting an invoice? I simply don't want him to say "my invoice was late" - I need to refute it. The work did not have an agreed total amount but hourly rate. 

Did you ever agree what would be payable - i.e. the total amount, based on the number of hours x hourly rate? If not, that is likely to be a stumbling block if your client continues to stall. He will simply dispute the amount you have invoiced and then claim it is impossible to check so long after the event.  How comprehensive are your timesheets if you need to submit them to back up your invoice?

Marcon

joesanders46 said:

Thanks Marcon - I agree not to use jargon - but it has got to stage back and forth where he is refusing to pay - but I also want to understand myself the legal time limit to submitting an invoice? I simply don't want him to say "my invoice was late" - I need to refute it. The work did not have an agreed total amount but hourly rate. 

It's not always the time since the work was done, submitting the invoice, that starts the clock ticking. A creditor has six years from the time a debtor last acknowledged there is an amount owing or made a payment on account (Limitation Act 1980). Either way, you are well within time, but I echo the point above about whether a final amount was ever agreed?

[Deleted User]

joesanders46 said:

Hi!

I invoiced a fashion company for some couture work 1 year after work was completed.

They are now refusing to pay on the basis I should have invoiced at the time (during the fashion season) - and that their accounts for that year are filed and they therefore cannot pay the invoice?

Surely this is not right? After some online research am I not protected under Limitations Act whereby I have a time limit of 6 years to submit invoice for contracted work? Also regardless of their accounts being filed, surely invoices can be submitted to a company regardless of the status of their accounts?

Would love the help here to know what to say back! And what to do if they still refuse?

Thank you!
Joe

joesanders46 said:

Barny1979 said:

It may be that their account, which the Purchase Order number has been assigned against has been closed, so they would pay, it's just their finance systems won't allow the invoice to be paid? Maybe ask that they assign the bill to the current fashion season and you'll agree to credit last season's invoice.

Hi Barny, thanks for reply - there was no PO raised - it was work confirmed over e-mail. The director is being pretty stubborn and is saying "Should have invoiced in season, I am only prepared to pay last season's invoice ONLY" - so even if I offer the above it does not look like they are willing to pay regardless? 

This is a bad way to run your business and leaves you wide open to disagreements and disputes; the person you did work for will see this and is taking advantage of it.
Conducting business just by email wording is unprofessional and i'd be surprised if you received your owed monies easily or quickly. 

I'm self employed too and i can see that you're running your business in a manner that will create problems in all areas, how is you accountant going to make sense of all this , how are you going to record it for tax purposes, lots of problems ahead .....
Sit down and look at your business thoroughly or just run it as a hobby.