Deposit Return: Withholding Emergency Call Out Fee after Carbon Monoxide Incident

dimbo61

Was the Carbon Monoxide poisoning reported to the HSE ? 
Did your DD attend hospital and have blood tests ?
People die from CO poisoning so the Landlord could be in Deep deep trouble over this.
Did the property have a Gas Safe Certificate for all the gas appliances which was less than 12 months old.

steampowered

Absolutely contest the deposit.

I would be tempted to take legal action against the landlord for the CO poisoning, and report him to the local authority. It seems crazy for the landlord to be trying to push this for the sake of £100.

The landlord was under a legal obligation to check the alarm was working on the first day of the tenancy. Can he prove he did this? If not, he is a prat for contesting this.

steampowered

greatcrested said:

The wording is imprecise. I've always believed replacement of batteries (as a consumable) was the tenant's reponsibility, whereas replacement of an alarm would fall to the landlord. Punctuation can be so important!

Many tenancy agreements specifically place battery maintenance on the tenant - though yes, contracts cannot over-ride statutory obligations, so if anyone knows where the stat obligation lies I'd be interested.

The statutory obligation is here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/1693/regulation/4/made

The landlord's obligation is to check that the alarm is in proper working order on the first day of the tenancy. That would include having working batteries at that point.

mark55man

Thanks - my DD says there was no pinging although the check in inventory states it was functioning at the start of the tenancy.  I will check about the Gas Safe, there was a letting agency involved (just for tenancy start and end) and they seemed professional (on the surface at least).

I never thought of the HSE, and it wasn't referenced when we researched our options at the time.  My daughter is a windows open type of girl and we think that mitigated the health damage, and she wasn't keen to undertake a legal battle when she had a lot of work to do.  Perhaps in hind sight we should have been more challenging - but the way it was all handled - literally the boiler and old detector and all the visit paperwork was taken out of the house in one afternoon meant we were left without any evidence (other than the positive blood test from A&E) 

what form would legal action take - "dial a lawyer" or small claims - not very experienced in litigation

greatcrested

Once again I find myself playing devils advocate. Me being obtuse?

* OP has not clarified, but if there was no solid fuel boiler/fire in the property, no CO alarm was required, so landlord not at fault on those grounds

* inventory says CO alarm was functioning at start of tenancy - so LL complied with his legal requirements if a CO alarm was required

* if no CO was required, then LL cannot be at fault for not maintaining it (putting aside the discussion on tenant's possible responsibility to test/maintain thereafter

* assuming (and we have no information either way so far) there is a gas safety report  dated within 12 months, the LL has complied with that aspect of his responsibilities

Suing the LL would be akin to blaming a driver who has an accident because his brakes fail despite having had an MOT 6 months previously. MOTs, and boiler safety checks, only guarantee the condition of the car/boiler on the date of inspection. Neither can guarantee there will not be an unexpected fault/failure some weeks or months later.

Of course, if there was not a gas safety inspection/report within the last 12 months, that would be an altogether different matter.

And I agree, legalities aside, it's a pretty unsympathetic  and cold-hearted LL who claims this fee from a tenant who suffered in this way.

steampowered

Standard tenancy agreements require the landlord to keep the structure of the property and installations in good order, so if the landlord hasn't done that, he will be in breach of the tenancy agreement without needing to rely on statute (though I can't see the tenancy agreement from here).

There will also be a whole host of statutory obligations I'm sure to take reasonable care for the tenant's health and safety. So there are a number of possible legal angles of attack even if they are not clear-cut.

Perhaps it's not a slam dunk case but a faulty boiler spitting out CO is extremely serious, so very surprising the landlord is arguing the toss.

A good example is this: https://www.maxinelester.co.uk/news/landlord-given-suspended-prison-sentence-ignoring-gas-safety

Robbo66

steampowered said:

Standard tenancy agreements require the landlord to keep the structure of the property and installations in good order, so if the landlord hasn't done that, he will be in breach of the tenancy agreement without needing to rely on statute (though I can't see the tenancy agreement from here).

There will also be a whole host of statutory obligations I'm sure to take reasonable care for the tenant's health and safety. So there are a number of possible legal angles of attack even if they are not clear-cut.

Perhaps it's not a slam dunk case but a faulty boiler spitting out CO is extremely serious, so very surprising the landlord is arguing the toss.

A good example is this: https://www.maxinelester.co.uk/news/landlord-given-suspended-prison-sentence-ignoring-gas-safety

Op say the inventory states CO2 alarm was checked and working, there is no legal requirement for there to be a CO2 alarm for gas appliances and a gas safety only indicates that the boiler was safe at point of inspection so I dont see how landlord has breached the tenancy agreement and it would appear the landlord did take reasonable step to ensure the tenants safety within the bounds of current legislation. 

Jumblebumble

Robbo66 said:

steampowered said:

Standard tenancy agreements require the landlord to keep the structure of the property and installations in good order, so if the landlord hasn't done that, he will be in breach of the tenancy agreement without needing to rely on statute (though I can't see the tenancy agreement from here).

There will also be a whole host of statutory obligations I'm sure to take reasonable care for the tenant's health and safety. So there are a number of possible legal angles of attack even if they are not clear-cut.

Perhaps it's not a slam dunk case but a faulty boiler spitting out CO is extremely serious, so very surprising the landlord is arguing the toss.

A good example is this: https://www.maxinelester.co.uk/news/landlord-given-suspended-prison-sentence-ignoring-gas-safety

Op say the inventory states CO2 alarm was checked and working, there is no legal requirement for there to be a CO2 alarm for gas appliances and a gas safety only indicates that the boiler was safe at point of inspection so I dont see how landlord has breached the tenancy agreement and it would appear the landlord did take reasonable step to ensure the tenants safety within the bounds of current legislation. 

My understanding is that the OP does not know if there was CP12 in place
If my understanding is correct then you cannot possibly state accurately that the landlord took reasonable steps

steampowered

You are making a big assumption that the boiler has been annually checked! Given how this landlord is behaving, I would put money on it that this didn't happen.

mark55man

So DD has confirmed that the check in inventory did refer to a gas certificate being part of the checklist.  So evidentially (if not necessarily factually) I think I would have to go with the MOT analogy. Equally I am comforted that the consensus is that it is outrageous to be trying to charge for this.  So we will go back into bat and dispute (again) the deposit - but hold back on the CO issue for now.

To reassure an earlier poster there is no long term damage to my DD (other than to the reputation of student landlords)   but it was a lost week (wages, study and fun) for her and very concerning at the time and even more of a shame proportionatelyt as CoVid pretty much shut down the Uni for half the year 

Thanks for all your input - very useful