Will Vanguard platform always be this limited?

dunstonh

The_Relentless said:

I think they will need to offer in-specie SIPP transfer from 1st February?

https://www.fca.org.uk/publications/policy-statements/ps19-29-making-transfers-simpler-feedback-cp19-12-and-final-rules

Do remember that Vanguard do not offer a SIPP.  

garmeg

dunstonh said:

The_Relentless said:

I think they will need to offer in-specie SIPP transfer from 1st February?

https://www.fca.org.uk/publications/policy-statements/ps19-29-making-transfers-simpler-feedback-cp19-12-and-final-rules

Do remember that Vanguard do not offer a SIPP.  

I agree with you dunstonh, it is not a SIPP, but Vanguard seem to think that it is ...

[Deleted User]

I've gone back to correct my mistake.  Thank you for pointing it out.

Am I right to think the main differences between a SIPP and Personal Pension are that a personal pension provider limits the choice of investments to their own products/a limited number of another company's products whereas a SIPP provider enables investments into a wider range of investments from a wider range of companies; and that personal pensions enjoy more FSCS protection (100% in the case of the business failing)?  Is that correct/incorrect?  Are there any other differences?  Thanks.

dunstonh

garmeg said:

dunstonh said:

The_Relentless said:

I think they will need to offer in-specie SIPP transfer from 1st February?

https://www.fca.org.uk/publications/policy-statements/ps19-29-making-transfers-simpler-feedback-cp19-12-and-final-rules

Do remember that Vanguard do not offer a SIPP.  

I agree with you dunstonh, it is not a SIPP, but Vanguard seem to think that it is ...

They manage to call it a personal pension and a SIPP in the same advert.  Companies will call things by all sorts of names if they think they will sell more.  A chocolate Bunny Pension.

Am I right to think the main differences between a SIPP and Personal Pension are that a personal pension provider limits the choice of investments to their own products/a limited number of another company's products whereas a SIPP provider enables investments into a wider range of investments from a wider range of companies;

The waters are a bit more muddied than that.  Some platforms use a personal pension rather than a SIPP as their product and will offer the ability to hold whole of market funds, shares ITs etc in the personal pension.     

The old personal pensions that were introduced in 1988 were all own brand funds.  Later they would offer external insured funds as well as in-house funds.    Then later some allowed UTs and towards the end, nearly everything like a SIPP.

 and that personal pensions enjoy more FSCS protection (100% in the case of the business failing)? 

Again, waters have muddied.  There are SIPPs that over insured funds that have FSCS protection.  There are platforms that claim 100% FSCS protection at platform level as the contract is insured rather than the funds (but that only covers the platform failing, not the fund house).

[Deleted User]

Thanks.  It is muddy!

So, from a consumer's point of view, it can make little/no difference whether a pension is officially classed as a SIPP or a personal pension? 

dunstonh

So, from a consumer's point of view, it can make little/no difference whether a pension is officially classed as a SIPP or a personal pension?

Not nowadays.    It's more semantics really.    It is just the "marketing" to refer to a pension with a couple of dozen funds as a SIPP that is a bit off.   It's playing to a market that is often not aware of the differences (at any level) of a stakeholder pension, personal pension, SIPP or master trust scheme and believes that if they DIY they have to have a SIPP.

[Deleted User]

Thanks dunstonh.  That's interesting. 

Going back to the original post and disadvantages/limitations of Vanguard Investor, I have a SIPP with Fidelity and a Personal Pension with Vanguard Investor.  If I wish to switch from one Vanguard fund to another, I think Fidelity prefunds the new purchase so the sale and purchase of a new fund take place at pretty much the same time.  I think that with VI that when I choose the switch funds option that it isn't prefunded meaning the sale is made first, then the money from the sale is used to place the buy order at the next trading point, meaning I could be out of the market for a day or so.  I'm not sure of this, but I think it's the case.

Albermarle

The_Relentless said:

Thanks dunstonh.  That's interesting. 

Going back to the original post and disadvantages/limitations of Vanguard Investor, I have a SIPP with Fidelity and a Personal Pension with Vanguard Investor.  If I wish to switch from one Vanguard fund to another, I think Fidelity prefunds the new purchase so the sale and purchase of a new fund take place at pretty much the same time.  I think that with VI that when I choose the switch funds option that it isn't prefunded meaning the sale is made first, then the money from the sale is used to place the buy order at the next trading point, meaning I could be out of the market for a day or so.  I'm not sure of this, but I think it's the case.

I think that some platforms , like Fidelity , offer a truer switching service , that does not wait for the settlements to be made. Although of course when switching funds the price is not known until  12 -36 hours later so there is still some delay. Others only offer a longer winded sell and buy process.
Regarding SIPP vs personal pension another example is Standard Life . Their standard retail personal pension is called AMPP and that is still available for accumulation . However if you want to move to drawdown you have to be transferred to the SL SIPP, which has three different levels. Level I offers the exact same SL insured funds as AMPP and even the same pricing structure. The only difference I can see is that there is a cash account in the 'SIPP'
Level 2 is more of a SIPP but funds only and on the expensive side.
Level 3 is a Full Sipp and expensive of course.

dunroving

Thanks for some of the additional replies since I last posted. It dawned on me that I had seen a note that Vanguard offers an in specie transfer, but as pointed out on here, this is for ISA only (not "SIPP" transfer).

I may just go ahead and make the in specie transfer of the ISA, and bite the bullet as far as the "SIPP" transfer is concerned. It's unclear how long I'd be out of the market, which is the only other thing I need to clarify. Vanguard says it can take up to 30 days for a transfer, but I know I have read several personal accounts, on here maybe, of transfers from Hargreaves Lansdown taking quite literally months to process. Does anybody know whether that means I'd be stuck in cash for months, or only for the latter period of the transfer? 

Aceace

I transferred a Vanguard SIPP (LS80) from HL to Vanguard. 
Instruction to HL given on 27/3/20.
Funds liquidated 30/3/20.
Cash appeared on Vanguard 8/4/20 and an instruction to invest in LS80 was formed. Presumably the funds would have been bought at that evening's price, but I decided to cancel the purchase while I considered my options.