Shared drive with neighbours - Am I not allowed to block my own half of the drive?

sheramber

I don't think they are parked  half way across the dropped kerb. they are parked up to the point the dropped kerb starts.

muffingg

AdrianC said:

muffingg said:

allconnected said:

Where are the dropped kerbs? i.e. what is the actual legal access point from the road to the drives? Because it looks like your visitors are parking on the public highway and partly on the pavement, and not on private property. If so, what is relevant is whether they are parking across the dropped kerb or not.

AdrianC said:

Another vote for showing on the diagram where the drop kerbs are.

I can't believe there's a lamp post in the middle of a drop kerb...

The dropped kerb part spans only half the total drive. So roughly from just next to the lamppost to the middle of my drive (so half in front of the neighbours, half in front of my house). And It's roughly 2 cars wide. So the neighbours are parking half on the kerb and half on the dropped kerb.

So as long as the visitor parks as they should do, nobody is blocking anybody.
HC243 - DO NOT stop or park

• in front of an entrance to a property
  

...and that means across a drop kerb.

It's certainly going to be easier to access that second parking space without somebody parked like a numpty across half of the drop kerb, isn't it?

I find it quite astonishing how everyone believes it's obvious not to park in front of someone's entrance. Yes of course I  would never in my life park in front of someone's drive entrance.  But it's so normal to just park in front of their drive and block them if you are visiting a close friend or relative. I mean  I have never even thought this could be a problem for anyone other than the people I'm visiting.

swingaloo

muffingg said:

AdrianC said:

muffingg said:

allconnected said:

Where are the dropped kerbs? i.e. what is the actual legal access point from the road to the drives? Because it looks like your visitors are parking on the public highway and partly on the pavement, and not on private property. If so, what is relevant is whether they are parking across the dropped kerb or not.

AdrianC said:

Another vote for showing on the diagram where the drop kerbs are.

I can't believe there's a lamp post in the middle of a drop kerb...

The dropped kerb part spans only half the total drive. So roughly from just next to the lamppost to the middle of my drive (so half in front of the neighbours, half in front of my house). And It's roughly 2 cars wide. So the neighbours are parking half on the kerb and half on the dropped kerb.

So as long as the visitor parks as they should do, nobody is blocking anybody.
HC243 - DO NOT stop or park

• in front of an entrance to a property
  

...and that means across a drop kerb.

It's certainly going to be easier to access that second parking space without somebody parked like a numpty across half of the drop kerb, isn't it?

I find it quite astonishing how everyone believes it's obvious not to park in front of someone's entrance. Yes of course I  would never in my life park in front of someone's drive entrance.  But it's so normal to just park in front of their drive and block them if you are visiting a close friend or relative. I mean  I have never even thought this could be a problem for anyone other than the people I'm visiting.

But clearly it is a problem for your neighbours if its impeding their access. If someone blocking your drive is affecting your neighbours ability to get into their drive easily then it is a problem. Whatever you think about your neighbours driving ability and it only taking a few extra seconds to maneuver round your visitors car it is still a problem for them. Wouldn't it be easier to try to solve the problem perhaps by my earlier suggestion in my previous post rather than exacerbate the issue with 'being right'. Why should your neighbours be inconvenienced by your visitors when it could so easily be avoided. Alternatively you could continue this way until a car gets accidentally damaged or the issue gets to the stage of a proper dispute  which will need to be declared if you wish to sell your property.

[Deleted User]

You keep saying it just takes a few seconds more to get out of the drive and that it’s tight but it’s incredibly frustrating and can be very stressful to have to do the manoeuvre, risking damage to your own or other cars, especially if you have ROW (which you need to check).

re: parking across a drive. I used to live on a narrow- ish road where parking was insufficient for the number of cars on the road. If anyone parked across a drive (like you’re suggesting should be within their rights, if they have permission from the homeowner) the house opposite would struggle to get their car out because of the angle; with a larger car it was impossible. 

Silvertabby

Am I right in thinking that you are in joined semis, and that you both had single drives - but with a double dropped kerb which served both drives?  Then you both widened your drives into doubles, but didn't extend the drop kerb?  If so, there probably wouldn't have been any ROW over either drive, as you would have both driven straight on/straight off.   It's not uncommon to see a hedge or fence marking the centre of the drive in these situations.

Your neighbour has created his own problem by building a driveway behind a lamppost - and asking to move said lamppost would draw the Council's attention to both enlarged driveways and the fact that you may be driving up and over a normal kerb. 

AdrianC

muffingg said:

AdrianC said:

HC243 - DO NOT stop or park

• in front of an entrance to a property
  

I find it quite astonishing how everyone believes it's obvious not to park in front of someone's entrance. Yes of course I  would never in my life park in front of someone's drive entrance.  But it's so normal to just park in front of their drive and block them if you are visiting a close friend or relative. I mean  I have never even thought this could be a problem for anyone other than the people I'm visiting.

If we work from a starting point of every single driver being familiar with the Highway Code... 
(he says, wildly optimistically)

...then it can simply be a disconnect when it's your mate's property.

But, of course, in this instance, the inconvenience isn't just to the occupants of that property - because the angle to get in and out of that second parking space next door means that their access is being blocked...

mrschaucer

Silvertabby said:

Am I right in thinking that you are in joined semis, and that you both had single drives - but with a double dropped kerb which served both drives?   

I think from the diagram they are in adjacent semis with adjacent single drives.  The two single drives had one long dropped kerb, serving both.  Then both houses decided to make the front gardens into extra parking but neither sought to extend the dropped kerb, hence the half dropped/half not situation.
OP really needs to get the title docs to see the red outlines of the boundaries and to see if the neighbour has ROW, but if the above is correct then they probably don't.  So in theory, the OP could put in a fence all the way to the front boundary and the neighbour would have to cope with the fact that he couldn't utilise OP's drive as he is used to doing. 

trex227

muffingg have you checked your title register on the Land Registry? Assuming there is nothing there to prevent you doing so I would be looking into putting a fence along the boundary, although maybe this will inflame things further and maybe you don’t want that.

When our neighbours still had bushes and a fence across half of their drive someone blocking our drive did not prevent them getting their cars out. Although our drives are longish and the road is quite wide so maybe that’s not the case for your neighbours. If our neighbours sell their house we would definitely put a fence up to prevent any issues with new neighbours.

gingercordial

Barny1979 said:

muffingg said:

The point was that they are correct in parking half on, half off, not that they were slightly too much on.

Nope, as the person said they were legally parked, they are parked outside of a bay, so could be issued a PCN.

gingercordial said:

For those querying parking on payments, as the OP says there are roads where that is permitted/required, for example this road near me in the north London suburbs.  It is a real pain as in this one there is no room left for pedestrians, but the cars are parked legally.

My point was that this is an example of a legal parking bay which goes up onto the pavement, which some posters didn't seem to believe might exist, not whether or not those particular cars on the day Google Streetview drove past were exactly within the lines or not...  They aren't my cars, I don't care!

hazyjo

I'm sure we had a recent post of someone selling their house who let their neighbours drive over part of their front drive to access their own drive. Can't remember the story, maybe they'd paved it but not got a dropped kerb or there was something in the way.

Anyway, not sure this sounds that different. If the next door neighbour can't easily get on their drive, surely that's for them to take up with the council?

I'd like to know which came first - the neighbours, the driveway (which I presume used to be a garden, or the lamppost!

I'm all for being nice to your neighbours, but if there was a wall down the middle they'd not be able to use part of the OP's half of the middle dropped kerb.

I do agree though it depends on whether that access point and the space beyond is classed as a shared drive or ROW. If it's wide enough for two cars side by side, it doesn't sound like a shared drive. Usually they're one car wide.

OP, I presume there are similar houses in the road. Have any got divides like walls, fences or planting down the middle?