SIESS Dilemma

marshall_mathers

Hi, Should I claim the SEISS grant.

It’s a bit complicated so I will summarise, avoiding taxes, rates, vat and running costs etc, just base it on turnover  and round the figures.

I am a tenant in a commercial space. I use this space to offer storage units.

Each time I make a sale, the customer will remain with me for an average of 24 months. Believe it or not, this is a very conservative estimate. Each sale has an average value of £2000 for that period. This is paid monthly at an average of £83.

During the lockdown period from March – July 2020 I increased my net occupancy by 10 sales. This compares to 30 for the same period in 2019. So the difference in monetary terms over the 24 month period is a decrease of 40000k at a rate of £1660 per month. Bear in mind that this reduction continues beyond the lockdown period. These lost sales may never be recovered.

My dilemma is that, despite these painful statistics, my actual monthly income has remained very similar to the previous year. In fact that net gain of 10 sales has increased my turnover by around £800 per month. I could argue that, in the absence of the covid lockdown, it would have increased by £2500 a month. The reason for this is increased capacity and increased fees over the years. The fact is my income has increased annually for the past 5+ years of trading. I am worried that, despite not feeling the pinch during these last 5 months, my growth has been set back by the lockdown. Whilst technically the government didn’t force me to close, I barely saw a person through the door for 5 months. So much so that I reduced my opening hours to 3 days a week at one point. I look at the situation a count myself amongst the lucky. Those that haven’t had the rug ripped from under them. Putting morels aside, am I entitled to accept the grant offered? Is it right to base a decision on what the turnover should have been despite the fact that it is actually higher than the same period last year?

My head is saying “look at the figures, this lockdown has cost you a fortune, take the grant”

My heart is saying “it doesn’t look good but you’ve done ok, you shouldn’t take the grant”

Jeremy535897

If you claimed the first grant, it would at first sight be illogical not to claim the second grant, as the same issues seem to apply both before and after 13 July? Is the only difference that your customers would now be allowed to make the journey to your site? The issue is presumably that you might have expected an additional 30 sales, but got only 10 due to coronavirus, and even now that your customers can visit the site, as you retain customers for at least two years, loss of new customers March to end of the strictest lockdown also affect earnings post 13 July?

Had you already invested in the additional storage units that you expected to rent, but are now empty? If so, I think you can argue that you had empty storage units at 14 July that would, on all the evidence of past years, have been filled, and there is also the fact that you reduced opening hours due to coronavirus (although this latter point may only be relevant to the first grant, depending on timing).

marshall_mathers

Jeremy535897 said:
If you claimed the first grant, it would at first sight be illogical not to claim the second grant, as the same issues seem to apply both before and after 13 July? Is the only difference that your customers would now be allowed to make the journey to your site? The issue is presumably that you might have expected an additional 30 sales, but got only 10 due to coronavirus, and even now that your customers can visit the site, as you retain customers for at least two years, loss of new customers March to end of the strictest lockdown also affect earnings post 13 July? 

Essentially, yes this is correct. I based my figures for the whole of July. Sales were consistently low throughout the whole 5 month period. The easing of lock down had no effect during the period.  It is only since August have we experienced a spike in demand again.

Jeremy535897 said:

Had you already invested in the additional storage units that you expected to rent, but are now empty? If so, I think you can argue that you had empty storage units at 14 July that would, on all the evidence of past years, have been filled, and there is also the fact that you reduced opening hours due to coronavirus (although this latter point may only be relevant to the first grant, depending on timing).

Capacity was made ready during the previous year/s for the projected increase in demand.

As I mentioned, the government didn’t force our industry to close down for the period. Technically we could have remained open throughout. They just told the customers to remain at home. House moves were only allowed if absolutely necessary. A significant proportion of our customers are using storage, simply for extra space. Imagine a remote garden shed or attic! This core was told not to leave home. In the height of the pandemic, the government were advising everyone to remain at home if possible. I took the decision, that with the lack of customers attending the site, it wasn't absolutely necessary to open every day. I worked from home, diverted the phone line etc.

Jeremy535897

If your business was still adversely affected at 14 July 2020, which seems to be the case, you can claim (assuming you meet all the other criteria). There is no magic test that says "for these months your turnover has to be less than last year". There couldn't be. You might have had to shut for 2 months last year due to an aeroplane crashing into the site. Record all your reasoning, as HMRC requires.

jimbob11

Seiss grant no help
I would like to claim the siess grant I am a self-employed electrician have been for over 20-years on the CIS scheme I have been unable to claim the s e i s s Grant because my tax return was late I missed the deadline of 23rd of April but I think it's really unfair that if you missed the deadline even though you've paid all your tax and NI why you no longer exist on the system to be able to calculate your average earnings to give you a grant like everybody else has received the only thing they will give you you for existing on the system is a fine for a late return which is is not fair because we're all suffering in the same way some of us more than others especially having to pay the fines with no extra money I rang the the HMRC ,I asked for a logical reason why you can't get the Grant if your tax return is late but the information comes in in and is on the computer to verify they told me that it's because they're worried about fraud after that deadline I asked them why can't they check my years of history to confirm that it is not fraud, I really think that this issue needs to be looked at because this is a massive punishment for having a late tax return it's cost me about £13,000 that I'm not allowed to claim that everybody else is allowed to claim I can't go back in the past and change what happened but I had problems that i could not get the tax return in on time some of it was down to the HMRC computer system I really think this needs looking at because they've made quite a few people who have put their tax returns in late non-existent anymore meaning they won't look at their evidence of earnings on the computer because they don't see them as existing only to pay fines

Sparklestar1127

Sounds like there’s your reasoning. Copy and paste what you’ve told us and claim the grant. 

haras_n0sirrah

The issue is your return wasnt 2 days late, it was 4 months late
They extended the deadline to give people an opportunity and you still didn't submit the figures

An expensive lesson in getting your tax return done