Using Own Car for Work and Fuel Card

MrMRJ

Grumpy_chap said:

The OP has the difficulty that the scheme appears to be new and possibly incorrectly administered on the 'here and now' rolling basis. 
The OP Has to assume that year end tax documentation will be correct.  

I know this is not new as they have done it for years. However incorrectly I have to agree, but as said previously I don't want to be the moaning new kid just yet 

Grumpy_chap

MrMRJ said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I had a private car (took the car allowance instead of company car) but kept the fuel card and the way it worked was as follows:
 - Fuel card subject to income tax at the cost of whatever was spent on it (less the amount "made good" deduction towards private mileage)
 - Kept records of business mileage
 - Claimed through tax return for business mileage at the 45p / 25p rate.
I think that is the same as Jeremy says, just expressed differently. 

Yes (I actually expressed it both ways, either as a claim for £270 on my figures, or a claim for £450 but a BIK or salary of £180, depending on what the employer does).

This has to be the right way of doing it. The amount the employer expends on the fuelcard, less the recharge to salary, is simply a payment towards the mileage allowance of 45p/25p. If they just paid 12p a mile with no fuelcard or salary deduction, then you would claim 33p/13p. But this is not what they do, so you can't just pretend otherwise.

I understand what you are saying. But if HMRC advisory rate for company car drivers is 12p/mile as an accepted amount to cover fuel, surely they have to accept their own calculations for the use of fuel cards for fuel.
In the same way some employers deducted 12p/mile private rather than reimbursement for Business at the same rate.

Although I understand your logic, you would be pretending that something happened that did not.

What will be declared on your P11D?

MrMRJ

Grumpy_chap said:

MrMRJ said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I had a private car (took the car allowance instead of company car) but kept the fuel card and the way it worked was as follows:
 - Fuel card subject to income tax at the cost of whatever was spent on it (less the amount "made good" deduction towards private mileage)
 - Kept records of business mileage
 - Claimed through tax return for business mileage at the 45p / 25p rate.
I think that is the same as Jeremy says, just expressed differently. 

Yes (I actually expressed it both ways, either as a claim for £270 on my figures, or a claim for £450 but a BIK or salary of £180, depending on what the employer does).

This has to be the right way of doing it. The amount the employer expends on the fuelcard, less the recharge to salary, is simply a payment towards the mileage allowance of 45p/25p. If they just paid 12p a mile with no fuelcard or salary deduction, then you would claim 33p/13p. But this is not what they do, so you can't just pretend otherwise.

I understand what you are saying. But if HMRC advisory rate for company car drivers is 12p/mile as an accepted amount to cover fuel, surely they have to accept their own calculations for the use of fuel cards for fuel.
In the same way some employers deducted 12p/mile private rather than reimbursement for Business at the same rate.

Although I understand your logic, you would be pretending that something happened that did not.

What will be declared on your P11D?

I don't know.
Previous job where I have had company car has just been the car, as only Business miles were paid for.

I can only assume in this case there will be no P11D as there is no taxable benefit if you pay for your own private mileage.

Grumpy_chap

You are not paying your private mileage.

Jeremy535897

Grumpy_chap said:

MrMRJ said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I had a private car (took the car allowance instead of company car) but kept the fuel card and the way it worked was as follows:
 - Fuel card subject to income tax at the cost of whatever was spent on it (less the amount "made good" deduction towards private mileage)
 - Kept records of business mileage
 - Claimed through tax return for business mileage at the 45p / 25p rate.
I think that is the same as Jeremy says, just expressed differently. 

Yes (I actually expressed it both ways, either as a claim for £270 on my figures, or a claim for £450 but a BIK or salary of £180, depending on what the employer does).

This has to be the right way of doing it. The amount the employer expends on the fuelcard, less the recharge to salary, is simply a payment towards the mileage allowance of 45p/25p. If they just paid 12p a mile with no fuelcard or salary deduction, then you would claim 33p/13p. But this is not what they do, so you can't just pretend otherwise.

I understand what you are saying. But if HMRC advisory rate for company car drivers is 12p/mile as an accepted amount to cover fuel, surely they have to accept their own calculations for the use of fuel cards for fuel.
In the same way some employers deducted 12p/mile private rather than reimbursement for Business at the same rate.

Although I understand your logic, you would be pretending that something happened that did not.

What will be declared on your P11D?

The 12p a mile is for a different circumstance, and therefore is irrelevant. HMRC do not have to accept its use in your circumstances.

Like every other employee who uses their own car for work, you have a choice: work out business proportion of all motoring costs and claim them (fuel, repairs, insurance, capital allowances, interest, RFL etc), or claim 45p/25p a mile. Both require a mileage log. Anything your employer contributes to that, however expressed and whatever for, fuel or otherwise, either reduces your claim or is taxed as salary or benefit. Check however that your employer has not negotiated some sort of special arrangement with HMRC.

MrMRJ

Grumpy_chap said:

You are not paying your private mileage.

I am if the £30 covers my private mileage, which on most months it will. My average private miles per month h I would say is aroun 200-300 miles whereas Business around 2000-3000

Grumpy_chap

I repeat, you are not paying your private mileage.  You are paying a cash contribution towards the cost of private fuel on a flat rate that your employer has agreed.  This may, or may not, match the cost of private fuel spend.  To claims that you are paying for private mileage, you would need to keep accurate records of business / private mileage and repay the employer the private mileage at the appropriate AMAP rate (around 12p/mile).  This is not what is happening.

From a tax perspective, it seems as though the correct position would be:

• Base salary = income tax liable
• Car allowance £450/month = income tax liable
• Contribution for private fuel £30/month paid to the employer = income tax reduction
• Fuel card = BIK income tax

You are new in this job, so I suggest raising queries with the employer at this stage may not be wise.  The best thing to do is await the end of the tax year and receipt of your P60 and P11D.  If the declarations are unclear at that time, then it would be appropriate to ask for clarification.  I cannot see how the employer can avoid declaring the fuel card as BIK but, as Jeremy suggested, they may have an agreement with HMRC.

I understand that you want to know the answer now but I think it is a waiting game, however frustrating you find that.

chez1426

Can I get sacked if I refuse a Company Fuel card and ask if I can claim my mileage as I used my own car and do about 416 miles with in 5 days 

eskbanker

chez1426 said:

Can I get sacked if I refuse a Company Fuel card and ask if I can claim my mileage as I used my own car and do about 416 miles with in 5 days 

Rather than resuscitating a tax-related thread that's over four years old, you'd probably be better starting a thread of your own about your employment issue on the employment board:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/employment-jobseeking-training

Grumpy_chap

chez1426 said:

Can I get sacked if I refuse a Company Fuel card and ask if I can claim my mileage as I used my own car and do about 416 miles with in 5 days 

Far more information would be required to provide beneficial comment.

1. Do you have / have you been offered a company fuel card?
2. Do you receive any other contribution to the cost of running a car over and above the fuel card?  Mileage or car allowance?
3. Do you have the option for the company to provide a car / pool car / hire car?