Sick Pay and Imminent SP

caveman38

My wife has been off sick for 5 months on company sick pay. In a month she will continue on to SSP for a maximum of 6 months. She is unable to work and awaits an operation but as it is not life threatening is still awaiting consultation with hospital following GP referral and XRays. The likelihood is she would use most of the SSP time withthe wait for the op and recuperation time following it.
She reaches SP age in a couple of months and TBH wouldn't want to return after her operation anyway.
She has had her initial talk with OT who are happy that she cannot return.
Firstly can you claim SSP if you receive SP. Unless her company approach her regarding termination is there any proposal she can make to them to everyone's benefit.
 

Undervalued

caveman38 said:

My wife has been off sick for 5 months on company sick pay. In a month she will continue on to SSP for a maximum of 6 months. She is unable to work and awaits an operation but as it is not life threatening is still awaiting consultation with hospital following GP referral and XRays. The likelihood is she would use most of the SSP time withthe wait for the op and recuperation time following it.
She reaches SP age in a couple of months and TBH wouldn't want to return after her operation anyway.
She has had her initial talk with OT who are happy that she cannot return.
Firstly can you claim SSP if you receive SP. Unless her company approach her regarding termination is there any proposal she can make to them to everyone's benefit.
 

Are you absolutely sure??

Normally company sick pay is made up of SSP topped up to full pay by the company. It is not normally the case that SSP only starts when the company sick pay runs out. The company, not the government, meets the full cost of SSP. The days of them being able to claim it back are long gone!

Finally no you can't get SSP if you are receiving the state pension. She may be entitled to company sick pay, depending on their terms, if she works past the state pension age.

Savvy_Sue

She will only get SSP while she is employed. But I think you can receive SP and still be employed. See here. 

I don't think there's any benefit to the EMPLOYER in keeping her on, because she will continue to accrue paid leave, which they would have to pay her for at the end of her employment. Obviously now she'd only be entitled to up to six months of paid leave plus any she hadn't taken in the leave year before she was sick. 

A going-the-extra-mile employer might agree to keep her employed until her SP kicks in, but that would be generous of them, IMO, and I wouldn't expect them to keep her employed for the full six months of SSP. 

Brynsam

Undervalued said:

caveman38 said:

My wife has been off sick for 5 months on company sick pay. In a month she will continue on to SSP for a maximum of 6 months. She is unable to work and awaits an operation but as it is not life threatening is still awaiting consultation with hospital following GP referral and XRays. The likelihood is she would use most of the SSP time withthe wait for the op and recuperation time following it.
She reaches SP age in a couple of months and TBH wouldn't want to return after her operation anyway.
She has had her initial talk with OT who are happy that she cannot return.
Firstly can you claim SSP if you receive SP. Unless her company approach her regarding termination is there any proposal she can make to them to everyone's benefit.
 

Are you absolutely sure??

Normally company sick pay is made up of SSP topped up to full pay by the company. It is not normally the case that SSP only starts when the company sick pay runs out. The company, not the government, meets the full cost of SSP. The days of them being able to claim it back are long gone!

SSP is payable from the fourth day of absence and is payable by the employer for up to 28 weeks. Full info: https://www.gov.uk/statutory-sick-pay

Apart from any holiday pay built up while on sick leave, sounds as if that's it so far as payment from her employer is concerned. What's her company pension scheme like?

caveman38

Undervalued said:

caveman38 said:

My wife has been off sick for 5 months on company sick pay. In a month she will continue on to SSP for a maximum of 6 months. She is unable to work and awaits an operation but as it is not life threatening is still awaiting consultation with hospital following GP referral and XRays. The likelihood is she would use most of the SSP time withthe wait for the op and recuperation time following it.
She reaches SP age in a couple of months and TBH wouldn't want to return after her operation anyway.
She has had her initial talk with OT who are happy that she cannot return.
Firstly can you claim SSP if you receive SP. Unless her company approach her regarding termination is there any proposal she can make to them to everyone's benefit.
 

Are you absolutely sure??

Normally company sick pay is made up of SSP topped up to full pay by the company. It is not normally the case that SSP only starts when the company sick pay runs out. The company, not the government, meets the full cost of SSP. The days of them being able to claim it back are long gone!

Finally no you can't get SSP if you are receiving the state pension. She may be entitled to company sick pay, depending on their terms, if she works past the state pension age.

Yes her company sick pay shows SSP given and taken back and I asume she'll get half pay and not SSP after 6 months. Istand corrected. Therefor I assume that becase of that ie. half company sick pay means that she can get her SP too. Maybe not not moralistic (is that a word) but she would rather leave and instead of resigning pre op or after would like advice as to how she may offer that alternative that would be beneficial to both sides ie. get some notice money instead of just resigning.

caveman38

As I have said in the above post she will get company half pay in a month when full pay runs it's course. It was my mistake to say SSP.

caveman38

Savvy_Sue said:

A going-the-extra-mile employer might agree to keep her employed until her SP kicks in, but that would be generous of them, IMO, and I wouldn't expect them to keep her employed for the full six months of SSP. 

Although it will be half pay and not SSP. You suggest that when her SP kicks in they will dismiss her even while she received sick notes. Would that involve them giving her 3 months notice on full pay. As I say she wouldn't want to work much after that date anyway.

Savvy_Sue

caveman38 said:

Yes her company sick pay shows SSP given and taken back and I asume she'll get half pay and not SSP after 6 months. Istand corrected. Therefor I assume that becase of that ie. half company sick pay means that she can get her SP too. Maybe not not moralistic (is that a word) but she would rather leave and instead of resigning pre op or after would like advice as to how she may offer that alternative that would be beneficial to both sides ie. get some notice money instead of just resigning.

I cross-posted with Undervalued, and also didn't read the OP properly. With what you say here, it looks as if she will soon have exhausted her entitlement to SSP. Honestly, I can't see any benefit to the employer in keeping her employed until the end of her half pay, and as CSP is not always contractual, I wouldn't assume that she will definitely get another six months of half pay

However, there is no value to her in resigning: I think she should just wait and see if they make moves towards terminating her employment. I presume by OT you mean Occupational Health. 

Let's say her notice period if she resigns is a month. It may well take them longer than that to go through the termination process, taking advice from OccHealth, and they may decide to wait until she has had her surgery or at least had her consultation. All that time she's getting her salary / half pay, PLUS she continues to accrue leave. 

Undervalued

Savvy_Sue said:

caveman38 said:

Yes her company sick pay shows SSP given and taken back and I asume she'll get half pay and not SSP after 6 months. Istand corrected. Therefor I assume that becase of that ie. half company sick pay means that she can get her SP too. Maybe not not moralistic (is that a word) but she would rather leave and instead of resigning pre op or after would like advice as to how she may offer that alternative that would be beneficial to both sides ie. get some notice money instead of just resigning.

I cross-posted with Undervalued, and also didn't read the OP properly. With what you say here, it looks as if she will soon have exhausted her entitlement to SSP. Honestly, I can't see any benefit to the employer in keeping her employed until the end of her half pay, and as CSP is not always contractual, I wouldn't assume that she will definitely get another six months of half pay

However, there is no value to her in resigning: I think she should just wait and see if they make moves towards terminating her employment. I presume by OT you mean Occupational Health. 

Let's say her notice period if she resigns is a month. It may well take them longer than that to go through the termination process, taking advice from OccHealth, and they may decide to wait until she has had her surgery or at least had her consultation. All that time she's getting her salary / half pay, PLUS she continues to accrue leave. 

I agree. Also, if the extensive sick pay scheme here is a hard and fast contractual entitlement (some still are) then the firm gain nothing by terminating her employment before the sick pay is exhausted as they would still have to pay it. There is case law to support this.

However. if the sick pay is in any way "discretionary" (as is becoming increasingly common) then obviously they do have an incentive.

caveman38

Undervalued said:

Savvy_Sue said:

caveman38 said:

Yes her company sick pay shows SSP given and taken back and I asume she'll get half pay and not SSP after 6 months. Istand corrected. Therefor I assume that becase of that ie. half company sick pay means that she can get her SP too. Maybe not not moralistic (is that a word) but she would rather leave and instead of resigning pre op or after would like advice as to how she may offer that alternative that would be beneficial to both sides ie. get some notice money instead of just resigning.

I cross-posted with Undervalued, and also didn't read the OP properly. With what you say here, it looks as if she will soon have exhausted her entitlement to SSP. Honestly, I can't see any benefit to the employer in keeping her employed until the end of her half pay, and as CSP is not always contractual, I wouldn't assume that she will definitely get another six months of half pay

However, there is no value to her in resigning: I think she should just wait and see if they make moves towards terminating her employment. I presume by OT you mean Occupational Health. 

Let's say her notice period if she resigns is a month. It may well take them longer than that to go through the termination process, taking advice from OccHealth, and they may decide to wait until she has had her surgery or at least had her consultation. All that time she's getting her salary / half pay, PLUS she continues to accrue leave. 

I agree. Also, if the extensive sick pay scheme here is a hard and fast contractual entitlement (some still are) then the firm gain nothing by terminating her employment before the sick pay is exhausted as they would still have to pay it. There is case law to support this.

However. if the sick pay is in any way "discretionary" (as is becoming increasingly common) then obviously they do have an incentive.

Thanks for that info. Unfortunately as the company she works for is the third TUPE transfer she has incurred. The original terms are not necessarily the ones that this company employ as that may not be covered by  TUPE anyway. She would prefer it to be the latter and get her marching orders as she is of an age when she will soon receive her SP and would prefer not to have keep furnishing sick notes (assuming the GP will,  when an operation is still months away). In an ideal world get 3 months notice on full pay not 6 months sick half pay and then resign.

hopalongcarfully

I'm on ssp and it will run out before I recover so what am I looking at benefits and no job to go to my car got grace on its mot but I can't