Could extra time be given due to covid delays?

clare1angel

Hello everyone,
My husband, who works for the NHS, has been off sick since 22nd August 2019 and after a complicated surgery in December he then needed further treatment.
He was due to have an appointment about starting radiotherapy on 23rd March 2020 but due to lockdown this didn't happen and it was 2 months later before the treatment actually started.
Now I know the delay was not my husbands fault or that of his employer but due to these delays he's now been off for a year and they say he needs to decide whether to face an ill health capability meeting or sign a waiver to the meeting and leave the trust.
My husband has an appointment with his consultant on 21st September and has asked his work if he could be given the extra time for that to go ahead so that he has all the information he needs to make an informed decision.
They do not want to allow this and don't seem to acknowledge that his treatment was delayed due to reasons out of his control.
Should they give him the extra time under the circumstances or is this completely fair?
Thank you for any advice 🙂
(I have posted in the corona advice forum as well as wasn't sure which was best, hope that's ok)

Comms69

Radiotherapy? So cancer? Automatic disability afaik. They'd be foolish not to really.

In anycase NEVER quit. Let them sack him. 

JamoLew

duplicate: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6181914/entitled-to-more-time-due-to-covid#latest
my answer is the same

wow that's not good behavior from the trust, they are usually very supportive to staff members, especially when treatment such as radiotherapy is required. - would hope ours would never act like that
Hopefully he is in a union as that would be his first and best port of call.
Does he have a time scale for returning to work ?
What age is he ? Retirement on grounds of ill health may actually be a good option
His sick pay will expire very soon - so there is no direct wage cost to the trust after 22nd August 2020 - he may be able to negotiate a "career break" or similar

We have had some staff return to work after being treated for cancer some not - its very dependent on the exact site/stage etc (dont need to know - irrelevant)

clare1angel

Comms69 said:

Radiotherapy? So cancer? Automatic disability afaik. They'd be foolish not to really.

In anycase NEVER quit. Let them sack him. 

So it was a cyst at the base of his brain, it was removed but within 2 months had grown back and radiotherapy was the chosen course of treatment.
Due to developing an infection he also now has a condition called hydrocephalus and has a vp shunt in his brain.
It's just frustrating because all he wants is to have his appointment in September and then make an informed decision but work don't seem to want that 🤷‍♀️

Comms69

My advice stands, never quit. Let them sack him.

oh_really

Get union support.

Manxman_in_exile

I'm a retired NHS manager and I'm disappointed at your husband's treatment - but not entirely surprised.  (I worked for a mental health trust and apparently we were not very understanding of staff experiencing mental health problems!).

I agree that under no circumstances* should your husband resign voluntarily - if the trust wants to get rid of him they can sack him.  See if they do.  Retirement on ill health grounds might be possible but it's a high bar to cross.  Basically you have to be incapable of doing any work at all - but that might apply here.  Hopefully your husband is in a union.  If so, he needs their help on this case.

Just couple of questions: first, your husband is actually an employee of a NHS trust, and isn't outsourced to a contractor like Serco or Initial?  Second, this meeting to discuss his capability/future has been officially initiated by the trust's HR department and not just one of your husband's managers acting on their own?  (I'm finding it hard to believe a trust's HR dept would be doing this if there was any possibility your husband could be classified as disabled.  Please note I'm not saying your husband's cancer would be classed as a disability - but it's a possibility.  HR do know he's got cancer?)

*I don't know whether, when he runs out of sick pay, his eligibility for benefits etc might be affected(?) if he remains employed even if he's not getting paid.  But I suspect he would be losing more in opportunities by voluntarily resigning than by staying employed and still within the NHS pension scheme etc.

clare1angel

Manxman_in_exile said:

I'm a retired NHS manager and I'm disappointed at your husband's treatment - but not entirely surprised.  (I worked for a mental health trust and apparently we were not very understanding of staff experiencing mental health problems!).

I agree that under no circumstances* should your husband resign voluntarily - if the trust wants to get rid of him they can sack him.  See if they do.  Retirement on ill health grounds might be possible but it's a high bar to cross.  Basically you have to be incapable of doing any work at all - but that might apply here.  Hopefully your husband is in a union.  If so, he needs their help on this case.

Just couple of questions: first, your husband is actually an employee of a NHS trust, and isn't outsourced to a contractor like Serco or Initial?  Second, this meeting to discuss his capability/future has been officially initiated by the trust's HR department and not just one of your husband's managers acting on their own?  (I'm finding it hard to believe a trust's HR dept would be doing this if there was any possibility your husband could be classified as disabled.  Please note I'm not saying your husband's cancer would be classed as a disability - but it's a possibility.  HR do know he's got cancer?)

*I don't know whether, when he runs out of sick pay, his eligibility for benefits etc might be affected(?) if he remains employed even if he's not getting paid.  But I suspect he would be losing more in opportunities by voluntarily resigning than by staying employed and still within the NHS pension scheme etc.

Yes he an NHS employee and has been for nearly 21 years.
He had a cyst at the base of brain which was drained/removed in December but unfortunately 2 months later it was back.
He's had radiotherapy and had an MRI this week and we now have just over 4 weeks until we get the results.
It does seem to be the HR representative that is pushing him to make this choice and my husbands manager is siding with HR.
My husband has considered the waiver as all of this is just adding extra stress and he's already quite low as it.

gwynlas

The questions already been asked but does your husband have a dedicated union rep? I'm retired NHS manager so have some relevant knowledge of procedures but not up to date.
Personally I would go down the route of non compliance and not letting the Trust speak to your husband due to his ill health. They are causing more stress at what is already a difficult time which is having an adverse affect on his mental health. 
Write a  holding response to whoevers written to your husband  as his representative.
It is quite possible that his sickness pay runs out and they are blindingly following HR guidelines despite Covid 19 delaying his treatment. Sometimes managers are put under pressure re their budgets and try to manage people out of the service.
Stall them until such time as your husband gets his September appointment and feels ready to make decisions going forward

clare1angel

gwynlas said:

The questions already been asked but does your husband have a dedicated union rep? I'm retired NHS manager so have some relevant knowledge of procedures but not up to date.
Personally I would go down the route of non compliance and not letting the Trust speak to your husband due to his ill health. They are causing more stress at what is already a difficult time which is having an adverse affect on his mental health. 
Write a  holding response to whoevers written to your husband  as his representative.
It is quite possible that his sickness pay runs out and they are blindingly following HR guidelines despite Covid 19 delaying his treatment. Sometimes managers are put under pressure re their budgets and try to manage people out of the service.
Stall them until such time as your husband gets his September appointment and feels ready to make decisions going forward

No my husband is not part of a union.
His sickness pay has ran out although he had accrued annual leave which he can have paid to him.
We have had a response today from his manager who said they are taking further advice about our request to be given until his appointment in September and they are going to get back to us today or tomorrow so 🤞

FBaby

Just to clarify, was he off sick due to that same condition last August? It seems a long time to get surgery from the time he was off if he was too I'll to work.