We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Boundary not advertised correctly and vendor not playing ball....
boromanc89
Posts: 29 Forumite
We are in the process of purchasing a house which we intend to live in for at least 10 years. One of the main points on the listing and on viewing this house is the large mature garden and opportunity to extend the property. We managed to beat off many other contenders to the property after increasing our offer twice, which is now 17K over asking (I suspect the property was marketed at the lower end of its value based on my research).
Searches didn't turn up anything, survey found some general maintenance issues which we had anticipated (its a 1930s house) so we didn't renegotiate as we already knew it would need some general maintenance and updating when we made our offer. The property is not registered with the Land Registry.
We are now 2 months down the line and have received the legal pack from the vendors solicitor. It now appears that the boundary of the property is not the same as that indicated in the listing. The bottom 1/3 of the garden (175sqm), containing the mature trees, shrubs and flower beds, belongs to the council. It was leased by the current owner and has only 27 years left on the lease. The actual boundaries of the freehold reduce the size of the garden in such a way that the 'fine mature garden' is not so impressive anymore, so if the council decide to have that land back I expect it will shave money off the value of the property. At our request, the council has provided the vendor with quotes to extend the lease, or to buy the land (for 4K). Extending the lease would only add an extra 23 years, so this will still likely cause problems for future purchasers when we come to sell the property in the future. We also don't know if the council would give us the same quotes they have given the vendor.
We now have a problem in that -
a) We are quite annoyed that the vendor has failed to mention this before now. We viewed the property once with the EA, then went back after our offer was accepted and viewed it, and the garden, with the vendor. I have spoken to her on the telephone a few times and she has never mentioned that she doesn't own the whole garden.
b) We have the 4K, but I am loathe to have to foot the bill for her failure to be upfront about this to begin with (I realise this is my problem, not hers, but we have been flexible throughout and I feel we are now hitting a brick wall because she likely doesn't see the boundary as a problem in the same way we do )
c) We feel now that it is a financial risk to buy a house where a large portion of the garden is actually leased from the council, with no cast iron guarantee that we can buy the land. If the council decide not to sell/extend the lease to us, it will knock a lot more than 4K off the value of the house and that is not an acceptable risk to take.
We asked the vendor to consider buying the land - she has refused. I feel that there must be a solution here, but even if we foot the bill, we need the guarantee we will own the garden and I'm not prepared to just go ahead with the purchase and sort it out after.
We love the house, we have been looking for well over a year and I don't want to lose it over 4K. That said, we need the security of knowing that we can own the entirety of the garden as this is what our offer was predicated on, and I don't know how to achieve this.....currently waiting to speak to my solicitor. I also intend to call the EA as I expect the vendor didn't tell them either.
Would be interested for peoples thoughts...
Sorry for the essay!
Searches didn't turn up anything, survey found some general maintenance issues which we had anticipated (its a 1930s house) so we didn't renegotiate as we already knew it would need some general maintenance and updating when we made our offer. The property is not registered with the Land Registry.
We are now 2 months down the line and have received the legal pack from the vendors solicitor. It now appears that the boundary of the property is not the same as that indicated in the listing. The bottom 1/3 of the garden (175sqm), containing the mature trees, shrubs and flower beds, belongs to the council. It was leased by the current owner and has only 27 years left on the lease. The actual boundaries of the freehold reduce the size of the garden in such a way that the 'fine mature garden' is not so impressive anymore, so if the council decide to have that land back I expect it will shave money off the value of the property. At our request, the council has provided the vendor with quotes to extend the lease, or to buy the land (for 4K). Extending the lease would only add an extra 23 years, so this will still likely cause problems for future purchasers when we come to sell the property in the future. We also don't know if the council would give us the same quotes they have given the vendor.
We now have a problem in that -
a) We are quite annoyed that the vendor has failed to mention this before now. We viewed the property once with the EA, then went back after our offer was accepted and viewed it, and the garden, with the vendor. I have spoken to her on the telephone a few times and she has never mentioned that she doesn't own the whole garden.
b) We have the 4K, but I am loathe to have to foot the bill for her failure to be upfront about this to begin with (I realise this is my problem, not hers, but we have been flexible throughout and I feel we are now hitting a brick wall because she likely doesn't see the boundary as a problem in the same way we do )
c) We feel now that it is a financial risk to buy a house where a large portion of the garden is actually leased from the council, with no cast iron guarantee that we can buy the land. If the council decide not to sell/extend the lease to us, it will knock a lot more than 4K off the value of the house and that is not an acceptable risk to take.
We asked the vendor to consider buying the land - she has refused. I feel that there must be a solution here, but even if we foot the bill, we need the guarantee we will own the garden and I'm not prepared to just go ahead with the purchase and sort it out after.
We love the house, we have been looking for well over a year and I don't want to lose it over 4K. That said, we need the security of knowing that we can own the entirety of the garden as this is what our offer was predicated on, and I don't know how to achieve this.....currently waiting to speak to my solicitor. I also intend to call the EA as I expect the vendor didn't tell them either.
Would be interested for peoples thoughts...
Sorry for the essay!
0
Comments
-
the council bit, what rights of access do they have in the lease
Is there any other access to it like the other boundaries are to other council owned property with road access.
or maybe totally enclosed by private property.
probably the biggest risk is they don't renew then change it to a building plot if there is access but that would be 27/50 down the road.
0 -
Would she buy the land if you increased your offer by 4k? Could you contact the council about the likelihood of buying the land after purchase and the cost. If they confirm you can buy it you're only haggling over the 4k.It would make much more sense for her to buy it. Presumably all potential buyers will have valued including this land and all will adjust their interest or offers accordingly.You've said it appears slightly undervalued, this is the reason.1
-
Forgot to say before you spend any money on a place
1. you download the title plans for £3
2. check the planning portal online to see what they mark as the boundary and if there are any planning apps for the place.
If lucky the planning search has a map(many do but some don't) with property dots on it that say what the property is0 -
If a property it not registered with the Land Registry would this still be possible?getmore4less said:Forgot to say before you spend any money on a place
1. you download the title plans for £3
2. check the planning portal online to see what they mark as the boundary and if there are any planning apps for the place.
If lucky the planning search has a map(many do but some don't) with property dots on it that say what the property is1 -
Is the council even offering it for sale? If they were willing to sell then I'd expect them to do that rather than just grant long leases.boromanc89 said:We asked the vendor to consider buying the land - she has refused.
0 -
Not sure why getmore4less is suggesting you download the title plans (which wouldn't exist anyway), as it sounds like your solicitor has already investigated the title. You can check the planning applications, but maybe you already have the searches covering the planning.boromanc89 said:
If a property it not registered with the Land Registry would this still be possible?getmore4less said:Forgot to say before you spend any money on a place
1. you download the title plans for £3
2. check the planning portal online to see what they mark as the boundary and if there are any planning apps for the place.
If lucky the planning search has a map(many do but some don't) with property dots on it that say what the property is
1 -
Scrub 1. missed not registered1
-
The council can't just "take the land back". Not for the next 27 years. You would have a lease on it.boromanc89 said:We are in the process of purchasing a house which we intend to live in for at least 10 years. One of the main points on the listing and on viewing this house is the large mature garden and opportunity to extend the property. We managed to beat off many other contenders to the property after increasing our offer twice, which is now 17K over asking (I suspect the property was marketed at the lower end of its value based on my research).
...
We are now 2 months down the line and have received the legal pack from the vendors solicitor. It now appears that the boundary of the property is not the same as that indicated in the listing. The bottom 1/3 of the garden (175sqm), containing the mature trees, shrubs and flower beds, belongs to the council. It was leased by the current owner and has only 27 years left on the lease. The actual boundaries of the freehold reduce the size of the garden in such a way that the 'fine mature garden' is not so impressive anymore, so if the council decide to have that land back I expect it will shave money off the value of the property. At our request, the council has provided the vendor with quotes to extend the lease, or to buy the land (for 4K).
...
b) We have the 4K, but I am loathe to have to foot the bill for her failure to be upfront about this to begin with (I realise this is my problem, not hers, but we have been flexible throughout and I feel we are now hitting a brick wall because she likely doesn't see the boundary as a problem in the same way we do )
c) We feel now that it is a financial risk to buy a house where a large portion of the garden is actually leased from the council, with no cast iron guarantee that we can buy the land. If the council decide not to sell/extend the lease to us, it will knock a lot more than 4K off the value of the house and that is not an acceptable risk to take.
We asked the vendor to consider buying the land - she has refused. I feel that there must be a solution here, but even if we foot the bill, we need the guarantee we will own the garden and I'm not prepared to just go ahead with the purchase and sort it out after.
So that puts you into a straight decision between the only possible four options...
1. Insist the vendor buys it. You've asked, they've refused. It'd delay your purchase anyway.
2. Buy the house, then buy the land. Maybe try and reduce the agreed price by £4k. You say you aren't willing to do that.
3. Accept that the lease is far longer than your likely tenure, so it isn't your problem. Then figure other options at your leisure while you're in residence.
4. Walk away.
If 1, 2 and 3 aren't options, that only leaves 4.
But don't forget to thank your solicitor for doing his job properly, in determining the reality of the situation.
Personally, I think you're being harsh on the vendor in seeing this as some kind of deliberate bait and switch. The property isn't registered - so they've not moved there recently, and are probably aged? They probably simply regard that as "their land", and haven't realised or have forgotten the precise legal detail. You only mention one person - perhaps her now-deceased husband dealt with all that, and she didn't know the reality?9 -
If the seller isn't willing to buy the land for £4000 I would walk away0
-
The house backs onto the corner of a large playing field, so the land has been taken from that. The playing field has road access, no current plans to build on it but this portion of the garden is a tiny fraction of the playing field. The house sharing one of the fence boundaries (not on the same street but backs onto the house) has also done the same thing, not sure if they are still leasing or if they own it.getmore4less said:the council bit, what rights of access do they have in the lease
Is there any other access to it like the other boundaries are to other council owned property with road access.
or maybe totally enclosed by private property.
probably the biggest risk is they don't renew then change it to a building plot if there is access but that would be 27/50 down the road.
The lease is hard to read as it has zero punctuation..... however the council maintains the right to construct mains pipes, sewers, drains, cables etc on the land, and also enter the land to contract/inspect/maintain. To my knowledge there are no utilities/pipes crossing the land that came up on the searches. There is a gate in the fence which would afford the council access from the playing field side.
It also says "the term hereby created may be determined at any time by either party giving to the other three months notice" - does this mean the council can shorten the lease term if they give 3 months notice? I really need my solicitor to explain this legalese to me0
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 351.9K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 454.1K Spending & Discounts
- 244.9K Work, Benefits & Business
- 600.5K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.4K Life & Family
- 258.7K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards