New/relocated boiler and radiators

NoisyGiraffe

Recently bought our first home and need to replace the boiler which is very old, very noisy and from what we've been told it's had various bits fixed/replaced in the lat couple of years including new heat pump last winter. The radiators are all old too, pretty rusty and we need to move 2 curved bay ones onto different walls (too expensive to replace curves ones).

We've been getting quotes for the current system boiler to be converted to a combi, tanks removed from loft and the boiler moved from the kitchen to the outhouse, which will need a 15m gas main upgrade. 7 new radiators and 1 towel radiator. We're in the north west.

1. £5,300 (intergas rapid plus 32kw). He's previously done work in this house for the previous owner so is familiar with the house and system. He has an elderly family member living next door. He's been really nice and helpful when talking us through the issue, what needs doing and our options. Has already done work for us removing a gas fire, he turned up when he said he would, did the job well and charged a very reasonable price.
2. £3,700 (baxi 830 30kw). Recommendation from a friend, he's serviced their boiler a couple of times. Seemed alright but less helpful than person 1.
3. £4,300 (Same baxi as above). From a well known website for search for tradesmen. Seemed keen, bordering on pushy, to do things how he wanted rather than what I wanted, in terms of boiler placement, radiator choice etc.
4. £4,200 (baxi 630). 4 man team over 2.5 days. One works for well known local building firm but I believe this would be done at the weekend, off the books, although certs still provided. Spent long time under the floor of the house looking at pipes, decided after they left that they would also replace all piping for the central heating as they currently "run all over the place", without asking me. Said the additional cost of the piping is only about £150 - push fit under the floor and copper up to the rads. I feel a bit uneasy about the off the books aspect of this one.

Our personal preference is person 1 as we feel comfortable with him and his advice, and feel that we can trust him to do a good job. But we're concerned that the other quotes have been much lower, and with a never ending list of things to do in the house the £1000 different between person 1 and person 4 is a lot of money. Don't know whether to choose based more on gut instinct of the person/people or the cost. In this situation what would you do? 

Sorry for long post, wanted to put in as much detail as possible.

ComicGeek

What's the VAT situation for each of the 4 quotes? To make sure you're comparing apples with apples.

NoisyGiraffe

ComicGeek said:

What's the VAT situation for each of the 4 quotes? To make sure you're comparing apples with apples.

Persons 1, 2 and 3 sent me full written quotes that just state the price, and person 4 sent a long text with "total price..." No mention of VAT on any of them. I assumed that if it was to be added it would be included on the estimate, is that right? 

Le_Kirk

No, you need to establish the situation regarding VAT - you don't want any surprises or disagreements when the job is finished.  I guess the "off the books" chap will be VAT free, as could the others due to not reaching the turnover threshold for VAT registration.

NoisyGiraffe

Le_Kirk said:

No, you need to establish the situation regarding VAT - you don't want any surprises or disagreements when the job is finished.  I guess the "off the books" chap will be VAT free, as could the others due to not reaching the turnover threshold for VAT registration.

Ahh, I didn't realise so thanks for pointing this out! I'll contact them all tomorrow to check.

Until then, assuming none have VAT added what would others do in this position?

I think my biggest fear is going against my gut instinct (which is to go with the person I prefer/trust the most) and choose based on cost only to have something go wrong or not be happy with the work done. But it doesn't feel right to ignore such a large cost difference either!

TELLIT01

I would discount number 3 as I can't stand trades who try to force their ideas on you.  Suggestions are fine, but the final decision has to be yours. 

Owain_Moneysaver

NoisyGiraffe said:

4. £4,200 (baxi 630). 4 man team over 2.5 days. One works for well known local building firm but I believe this would be done at the weekend, off the books, although certs still provided. 

If it's done 'off the books', the workman (and you) cannot take advantage of the employer's self-certification scheme memberships and you will have to obtain and pay for any Building Regulations certificates yourself direct with the local authority.
In particular, the workman will not be covered by his employer's Gas Safe registration and if he is carrying out gas work for money without being registered he is breaking the law. 
This is an example of a gas installation that didn't end well. 

Personally I would probably ask no. 1 to requote using a different boiler.
Also pay by credit card to get the s.75 protection. 

Homer_home

Have you tried doing a deal with no 1
If you can barter him down 10% that would be reasonable
Like others have said does the quotes include vat or not ( they should say)

NoisyGiraffe

Owain_Moneysaver said:

NoisyGiraffe said:

4. £4,200 (baxi 630). 4 man team over 2.5 days. One works for well known local building firm but I believe this would be done at the weekend, off the books, although certs still provided. 

If it's done 'off the books', the workman (and you) cannot take advantage of the employer's self-certification scheme memberships and you will have to obtain and pay for any Building Regulations certificates yourself direct with the local authority.
In particular, the workman will not be covered by his employer's Gas Safe registration and if he is carrying out gas work for money without being registered he is breaking the law. 
This is an example of a gas installation that didn't end well. 

Personally I would probably ask no. 1 to requote using a different boiler.
Also pay by credit card to get the s.75 protection. 

Thanks, this is what I was worried about with the off the books one. I can't seem to find any information about him at all, which I would expect to find if say he was set up as a sole trader/self employed to do work for himself rather than/as well as for the firm he is currently working for. We have now discounted this person from the list.

Can I ask about your suggestion to ask for a require with a different boiler? The Intergas and the Baxi models seem to be fairly similar in price when I've had a look around to compare them, in fact the Baxi ones quoted by the others sometimes come up as more expensive. So I figured that meant the cost difference in the quotes is coming from the labour rather than the boiler?

NoisyGiraffe

TELLIT01 said:

I would discount number 3 as I can't stand trades who try to force their ideas on you.  Suggestions are fine, but the final decision has to be yours. 

Yes, I thought the same! It seemed like he had an idea of the easiest way for him to do the job and was dead set on doing it that way despite me clearly saying a number of times I didn't want that. Best example is him wanting the boiler in the loft instead of in an outbuilding where I want it. I don't even have a loft ladder, let alone a boarded out walkway to where the boiler would be, and I'm definitely not going to that effort to have the boiler put somewhere I don't want it when I can just stick it outside where I'll have easy access to it if needed! We must have gone around in this particular circle at least 3 times while he was here, I was getting so mad!

Doozergirl

NoisyGiraffe said:

TELLIT01 said:

I would discount number 3 as I can't stand trades who try to force their ideas on you.  Suggestions are fine, but the final decision has to be yours. 

Yes, I thought the same! It seemed like he had an idea of the easiest way for him to do the job and was dead set on doing it that way despite me clearly saying a number of times I didn't want that. Best example is him wanting the boiler in the loft instead of in an outbuilding where I want it. I don't even have a loft ladder, let alone a boarded out walkway to where the boiler would be, and I'm definitely not going to that effort to have the boiler put somewhere I don't want it when I can just stick it outside where I'll have easy access to it if needed! We must have gone around in this particular circle at least 3 times while he was here, I was getting so mad!

The boiler won't run as efficiently if the outbuilding is unheated.  I do understand people wanting what they want, but sometimes the people that do it every day do have a more informed opinion!   I'm not saying it's the case because I'm not a gas engineer.  I seem to learn different things from different people but the gas engineer I trust the most always draws me pictures on the walls and I've learned more from him in a couple of years than I have from anyone else.  

I'd have a Worcester Bosch all day long because I've got 10 years experience of only using them in our projects and never having an issue, I'd keep the boiler in a warm place (that might mean heating your outbuilding with a small rad) and I would have a new, more efficient and clean, pipe run as it also makes a difference.