Second Grant from HMRC - coronavirus self-employment income support scheme

racrichardson

I am about to make a claim for the second grant from HMRC for the self-employed.  I work as a self-employed genealogist and apart from one person who paid me £30, I haven't had any customers since lockdown first started in March.  I cannot, however, prove that I would have had customers were it not for the coronavirus.  This is a problem of being in a service industry.  I am very worried, as I desperately need the money, but I would not want HMRC to argue that I don't have evidence that I have lost customers because of the coronavirus.  Is it considered that I have a genuine case to make a claim, please?
Thank you

Jeremy535897

Did you claim the first grant? If not, why not?

Whilst a lot of genealogical research can be carried out online, it still requires visits to records offices. The LMA, for example, is still closed, which could significantly hamper your work, as is TNA. That could be a very strong argument to support a claim.

Compare your current sales (zero) from 14 July to the same period last year. I assume these show a decline? That is another indicator.

My question is why you are not getting customers? I would have thought lockdown might inspire people to look into their family history, but I guess there is a relatively long lead time until someone decides that the genealogical websites aren't sufficient?

racrichardson

Thanks for your comment.  I claimed the first grant, yes, thank you.  I am still being affected now.  It is very difficult to conduct research at the moment because, as you point out, although some records are available online, there is still a lot that is not.  Some Record Offices are slowly beginning to reopen, but providing a very limited service.  You have to book in advance and order documents in advance, which is very difficult to do when the online catalogues of many Record Offices do not include their whole collections, and you may have to travel some distance to get there.

The answer to the question of why I am not getting customers could be because people do not want to pay out money at the moment due to the current situation.  Paying someone else to conduct research at the moment, when some people are struggling to get through each day, is probably way down people's list of priorities.

It is a very worrying time.

Jeremy535897

If you record the fact that your turnover is down, probably because your business is not a priority for people worried about losing their jobs, and also record that many of the places you would do research at are closed, that should suffice as evidence if HMRC ever asked the question. Not to claim now, when your business has not improved since the last grant, only begs the question as to why.

racrichardson

Thank you, Jeremy.  It's very kind of you to reply to me again.  I really appreciate it

BigCraigJohn

I like to think that despite their reputation that hmrc won't have time to sit and trawl through hundreds of thousands(millions?) of grants checking evidence etc. Its just not viable and the amount of resources needed would probably near the amount of grants handed out. 
Ive been doing a bit but nothing near normal, all my usual physical outlets are shut and ive got social media print offs stating as much, that along with bank + PayPal statements is the extent of my evidence was it ever needed. Compare those to 12 months ago and the difference is clear.
The 14th of july thing is baffling due to the missing couple of months. 

Jeremy535897

!4 July is simply the date after the first SEISS closed. Although the first grant was initially said to be for the three months to June, that was never confirmed.

TF1

I just received an email from HMRC regarding SEISS 2.
It states the following.
"There is no minimum threshold over which your business' income or costs need to have changed"
I'm no expert, but that sounds virtually like an invitation to take the second grant even if you're earning more than ever but you had to spend £7.95 on a box of protective rubber gloves.
Yes, there's a moral element to taking the money if you don't need it, but equally there's not much coming from HMRC to put you off from taking it with any fear of being asked to pay it back.
The thing is the grants are ALL or NOTHING, these was no putting in a claim for exactly what you are out of pocket.
I took the first grant because I have to completely change my entire business model and go form person to person to on-line and I have to spend thousands to do that so I took the grant even though my income held fairly steady. I spoke to HRMC in May and they confirmed I should take SEISS 1 - I don't know yet if I will need SEISS 2 but I can see based on these loose rules a lot of people taking the 2nd grant.

Jeremy535897

TF1 said:

I just received an email from HMRC regarding SEISS 2.
It states the following.
"There is no minimum threshold over which your business' income or costs need to have changed"
I'm no expert, but that sounds virtually like an invitation to take the second grant even if you're earning more than ever but you had to spend £7.95 on a box of protective rubber gloves.
Yes, there's a moral element to taking the money if you don't need it, but equally there's not much coming from HMRC to put you off from taking it with any fear of being asked to pay it back.
The thing is the grants are ALL or NOTHING, these was no putting in a claim for exactly what you are out of pocket.
I took the first grant because I have to completely change my entire business model and go form person to person to on-line and I have to spend thousands to do that so I took the grant even though my income held fairly steady. I spoke to HRMC in May and they confirmed I should take SEISS 1 - I don't know yet if I will need SEISS 2 but I can see based on these loose rules a lot of people taking the 2nd grant.

Note the "income or expenses" phrase. Your turnover could have doubled but that box of rubber gloves wins the day. There is some logic in this. The government needs the economy to recover. What would be the point in self employed people deliberately not doing available jobs in case they could not claim the grant? If they managed to earn twice as much from a temporary job as a shelf stacker as they made as a party clown, there is no suggestion of an issue. Or they could win £100 million on the lottery and still claim without any qualm.

Grumpy_chap

Jeremy535897 said:

win £100 million on the lottery

I don't qualify for SEISS.
Can I just have the £100 million instead please?

Jeremy535897

As the joke goes... "Meet me halfway. At least buy a ticket!"