Builder wants 60% upfront to cover materials

kickers100

I've had a quote of £6000 to refurbish 2 small bathrooms and an interconnected kitchen by this builder. This quote he agreed was inclusive of labour and materials however he now says in his contract that 6 days before the work begins he wants me to settle £3800 upfront to settle material costs. I thought he was going to absorb this cost on his trader account until my staged/phased payments but he said that's not how he works. I feel uncomfortable paying 60% upfront without a breakdown/receipt of the materials so I said I will even directly source and supply the materials myself for him if he wants the customer to pay upfront for materials. It doesn't make much sense that he would work 3/4 weeks for £2200 labour ..so surely he must be marking up his material costs (hence theuthe to share his costs). Is there a way to protect myself in such an arrangement, or should I leave the job and get someone else to quote..?

kickers100

hence the unwillingness to share his costs*

kickers100

As discussed, the works at main bathroom comply with:

1.      Building partition wall in new location, relocating toilet, basin and bath as requested (these items are not supplied);

2.      Removing old plaster, applying moisture 12.5 plasterboard to walls and plaster walls and ceiling;

3.      Building render floor lay to install floor tiles;

4.      Tilling floor and walls halfway high;

5.      Refurb plumbing, drainage and electric to new layout;

Works at WC ground floor comply with:

1.      Assessment to floor tanking and creating lay to tile the floor;

2.      Removing all plaster from walls, tanking all walls, and applying moisture 12.5mm plasterboard;

3.      Building a wet room with full wall tiling;

4.      Relocation of toilet and basin to new position and tilling wall halfway high;

5.      Refurb plumbing, drainage and electric to new layout;

6.      Assessment to sewerage external connection point and relocation to new layout of both bathrooms;

7.      Plastering remaining wall and ceiling;

Works at kitchen comply with:

1.      Removing old plaster, tanking walls, and applying moisture plasterboard 12.5mm;

2.      Assessment to floor tanking and creating a lay to tilling;

3.      Fitting supplied cabinets;

4.      Fitting and supply worktop;

5.      Install supplied spotlights;

6.      Removing and reinstalling boiler to be able to process plaster works;

Pricing from this works are £6,000.00

FreeBear

Can't see how he is managing to do all of that work for just £6K - Just one room would eat up most of that... Is the appropriate building regulations going to be complied with and signed off ?

Any new connection to the foul water sewer (even if it is "just moving a pipe" needs approval. Removing & refitting a gas boiler will need a gas safe registered engineer - Has he got one on his team ?

If I am paying a deposit for building work, it is usually no more than 20% and any materials needed are obtained using the builder's trade account - If he needs money up front for materials, this would suggest he has been refused credit by suppliers. Draw your own conclusions from that.

kickers100

FreeBear said:

Can't see how he is managing to do all of that work for just £6K - Just one room would eat up most of that... Is the appropriate building regulations going to be complied with and signed off ?

Any new connection to the foul water sewer (even if it is "just moving a pipe" needs approval. Removing & refitting a gas boiler will need a gas safe registered engineer - Has he got one on his team ?

If I am paying a deposit for building work, it is usually no more than 20% and any materials needed are obtained using the builder's trade account - If he needs money up front for materials, this would suggest he has been refused credit by suppliers. Draw your own conclusions from that.

Thanks for this. He showed his proof of insurance and is gas safe registered to refit the boiler but I completely agree with you - I did ask him if he has a credit account but his response was that he does not work with credit and invest his own capital in a customers house. If this is the case then surely he should get me to pay his supplier direct for the materials or atleast prove it will cost around £3800?!

kickers100

kickers100 said:

FreeBear said:

Can't see how he is managing to do all of that work for just £6K - Just one room would eat up most of that... Is the appropriate building regulations going to be complied with and signed off ?

Any new connection to the foul water sewer (even if it is "just moving a pipe" needs approval. Removing & refitting a gas boiler will need a gas safe registered engineer - Has he got one on his team ?

If I am paying a deposit for building work, it is usually no more than 20% and any materials needed are obtained using the builder's trade account - If he needs money up front for materials, this would suggest he has been refused credit by suppliers. Draw your own conclusions from that.

Thanks for this. He showed his proof of insurance and is gas safe registered to refit the boiler but I completely agree with you - I did ask him if he has a credit account but his response was that he does not work with credit and invest his own capital in a customers house. If this is the case then surely he should get me to pay his supplier direct for the materials or atleast prove it will cost around £3800?!

and does not invest* his own capital....sorry weird afternoon for me!

TELLIT01

I agree with FreeBear, that is a lot of quite specialist work for £6k.  If he has estimated 3 to 4 weeks, the labour charge is far too low and I would expect there would be demands for more money as the job progressed.

Silvertabby

It's not unusual for a 'one man band' to want payment for materials up front, but just £6K for all that work would be a red flag for me.

How much did your other quotes come out at? 

stragglebod

FreeBear said:

Can't see how he is managing to do all of that work for just £6K - Just one room would eat up most of that... Is the appropriate building regulations going to be complied with and signed off ?

Any new connection to the foul water sewer (even if it is "just moving a pipe" needs approval. Removing & refitting a gas boiler will need a gas safe registered engineer - Has he got one on his team ?

If I am paying a deposit for building work, it is usually no more than 20% and any materials needed are obtained using the builder's trade account - If he needs money up front for materials, this would suggest he has been refused credit by suppliers. Draw your own conclusions from that.

My suspicion would be that the costs will inflate so much that £3800 will turn out to really be 20% of the final total. Of course he isn't legally allowed to do that, but if he threatens to walk off the job leaving you with 3 unusable rooms ...

comeandgo

Problem with you paying direct for materials is if there is a problem after fixture.  Your supplier could say fault was done at fitting and your fitter says he fitted correctly.  If you pay for supply and fit you only have to deal with one.  Did you get other quotes for the work?  Other quotes would show discrepancies.
 I honestly do not know any tradesman not having credit with companies, this could happen if tradesman has bad credit rating and not paying suppliers on time though. I have never had to pay upfront for materials.

Mistral001

Actually there is quite a lot there and will not all be done by one person.  It will take two full time and probably a few others such as an electrician and plumber as well.  Judging by the list I would have thought it would be more like  60/40 labour/materials  than the 33/67 the builder is working on.