Refused Permitted Development - bad advice from architect?

questionthing

I have been using an architect since January 2020 to draw up plans for a full width extension thats 5.4m out from the original back wall of my semi-detached house. The house had already been extended to the side (2 storey) under a full panning application before we bought it. We also wanted to add a small extension on top of the rear extension to extend the 1st floor bathroom and do a garage conversion with porch and bay window. He also said he would do a drawing of the loft as at some point we were thinking of converting it.

The architect said it would be fine to do this. At first he sent me a quote of £1450 for a full planning application for everything (but not submitting the loft as that was a maybe in the future thing). Then sometime later he changed strategy and advised putting the single storey rear extension on a permitted development application and do the bathroom and garage on separate full planning application once the PD was approved. He didn’t send me a new quote for 2 separate applications.


Sometime later we were watching ‘Your home made perfect’ and it mentioned the 45 degree rule. I asked him about this and he said it doesn’t apply to PD.


We were heading for the PD submission around the end of May 2020. On May 25th he suddenly out of the blue sent me 3 new layouts of the rear extension. 1 was L shaped and the other 2 were a weird triangular shape. This is what he said to me…


“Further to our phone call the drawings for the “permitted development” scheme (prior notification) are now complete.

The planning strategy would work as follows: if there are no objections to the size of the extension then following approval the 2nd application would be submitted to pick up the first floor bathroom and front playroom extension.

The risk as discussed is if the neighbour raises an issue with the depth/size of the extension principally the impact of the extension on their property. If concern is raised I suspect the planners will ask for the extension to be reduced in size due to the 45 degree rule.

I have been thinking about an alternative option which would be to submit the rear extension, first floor bathroom, and front extensions in one planning application.
If we do this we will need to respect the 45 degree rule. I have put together 3 options which show how this would work.”


So as he only said there was a risk that the neighbours could complain, and we were pretty confident they wouldn’t we went ahead with the PD option.


8 Weeks later it was refused. 

He sent me the decision letter. He didn’t give me a reason for refusal other that it was a “poor decision”.

So I thought I would call the planning department to find out. They asked if I had seen the officers report. I said no. They said my architect should have sent it to me and fully explained why it went wrong. The planning officer told me where to obtain the report and told me that…


The neighbours didn’t complain. 


The reason was… The development would not comply with A.1 (j)(iii) or j(a) as it would extend beyond a side elevation of the original house and would be more than half the width of the original dwellinghouse and also joins on to an earlier extension (two storey side) that itself is not permitted development. 

Recommendation 

Refuse. 


At this point I decided not to rock the boat and asked him could we submit a new full planning application that was L shaped. He said he would and keep the price lean for me.

As I said earlier, his original quote was for £1450 (This was originally 1 planning application for everything, he switched to a PD and separate full planning strategy later down the line but never talked about additional money). 

By the time the PD plan was submitted I’d already paid him £362.50, and 2 x £725 (£1812.50 in total) so it had already gone over budget.

He submitted the plans and gave me another bill for £750 for the 2nd full planning application, so now we’re north of £2500. Now I’m getting annoyed as he should have proposed a full planning application in the first place, not this PD plan that was impossible to do.

So now I am in dispute over this invoice. He said he had explained all the risks of the PD, I told him it wasn’t a risk, what he proposed was an impossibility. He maintains that the planners made a poor decision and applied local planning laws to a PD application. I said that it didn’t comply with PD and didn’t have a chance of approval.

He said we could have taken it to appeal and won. I said I’m not an expert but probably clever enough to know that if it doesn’t comply with PD then an appeal probably wouldn’t work either. And we didn’t want to go through an appeal anyway.

In my opinion he has made fundamental errors, tried to brush his mistakes under the carpet and then charge me over £1000 more than his original quote for the privilege.


What do you think about this situation?

dimbo61

Having spent thousands of pounds and 3 planning applications trying to get a planning application passed by our local council I feel your pain.
You maybe like I was under the impression that your local council works for you.
WRONG !
Total nightmare but you seem to be overdeveloping the site.
What will the council allow you to build.
We took our planning application to appeal which of course cost lots more money.
Your architect is just that ! 
A person that draws up plans and you may need a planning appeals specialist.

Doozergirl

Duplicate of an existing thread. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6177656/refused-permitted-development-planning-application-poor-advice-from-architect#latest

questionthing

Sorry Doozer Police. 😂 Didnt know where best to post it so posted in in the 2 most relevant places. Am I not supposed to do that?

Doozergirl

questionthing said:

Sorry Doozer Police. 😂 Didnt know where best to post it so posted in in the 2 most relevant places. Am I not supposed to do that?

It's in the rules that you shouldn't, but mainly it just helps for people to see what replies have been received already. 

questionthing

Sorry I'm not really used to using forums

blueberrygerry

Seems to me you've engaged a complete muppet of an architect.
It's the least he should be able to manage in understanding what PD rules are.
Not good enough

questionthing

blueberrygerry said:

Seems to me you've engaged a complete muppet of an architect.
It's the least he should be able to manage in understanding what PD rules are.
Not good enough

Yep! I just cant get my head around it. And then for him to deny any mistakes is unbelievable 

Doozergirl

Is he using a 'smaller' company to avoid VAT? 

snowcat75

In my experience architects are not great with planning law (some are not great at producing useable drawings) generally its far better to use a planning consultant, then have an architect draw up a final set of plans if needed. A decent consultant is honest about the chances and how long or any appeals that may be needed, there usually ex LA and poachers turned gamekeepers so know the dodges to get things through, I have had outline planning for entire dwellings approved with consultants for around £1500, by the time Iv had conditions and full plans submissions that amount can end with another 0!.

[Deleted User]

Sometimes architects may use the term 'architect' but actually be a technician (not properly qualified).  I hope you checked his status before employing his services.  But I'm afraid its an 'after the stable door is shut' situation.., a planning consultant being involved would have been worth their weight in gold once you had doubts about the local planning knowledge of this person.  I know you had doubts but ignored them, and trusted their 'knowledge' but possibly more research with the LA planning dept before starting the project would have been helpful given the sums of money involved.  Surely you realised that with one extension already, you building another large extension might be a bit impossible? Its kind of common sense.