Council Tax Arrears

Comms69

theartfullodger said:

Or Landlord has excluded part of property (eg one bedroom) in which case LL responsible

Wish I knew that back in 2016! Ah well

CIS

sisko1982 said:

we have received this morning a letter from a debt collection agency regarding council tax on my husbands rented out house. We have had no contact from the council to our address regarding an outstanding bill etc. 

It looks like his tenants haven’t paid council tax since they moved in last October. 

Is this our debt to pay? He’s on the council tax here and we have tenancy agreement etc showing the date they moved in and also bank statements showing their regular payments. 

We feel like we’ve lost our chance to fight as we’ve had no notice of this before they’ve gone to debt collection agent. And the first payment needs paying on Tuesday  when we got the letter this morning (sat) and there’s no one to contact anywhere till Monday as it’s a weekend 

It all comes down to s6 and s8 of the LGFA 1992 (slightly different if you're in Scotland).

If the property was rented as a whole, and it doesn't fall under the auspices of s8 of the LGFA 1992, then a non-resident landlord is not liable under s6(2)(f) - there's not enough information in the post however to determine where exactly it falls under ss6 and 8.

The fact that it's been sent to an enforcement agent (not a debt collector) doesn't mean it can't be disputed,it makes no difference to the technical side of disputing the debt.

After not having to deal with enforcement agents for the last 6 months or so I'm starting to see them raise their heads again, yay.

There may be grounds, depending on what happened, and when, to dispute the liability order itself but that's a longer shot (it would stop the enforcement agents though).

CIS

Leah04x said:

I assume there’s a clause in their tenancy agreement making them liable for the council tax?

A clause in the tenancy agreement cannot override council tax legislation and who it determines is liable - any such clause would simply be a contractual agreement between landlord and tenant, and of no interest to the council.

sisko1982

apologies for lack of response. 

They moved in the day old tenants moved out. The tenancy agreement has them down as being responsible for the utilities. 
I am presuming the council will have tried to make contact With occupier at the address first so that must have been ignored by them. 

Here’s hoping it’s an oversight by the tenants and not deliberate 

sisko1982

Leah04x said:

I assume there’s a clause in their tenancy agreement making them liable for the council tax?
I work for a letting agency and encounter this quite a lot when the council fail to update the account despite us providing the details. 

I would suggest calling them on Monday and asking them to put debt collection on hold until the account is updated and accurate. Provide them with their tenancy agreement and the dates you should be liable for prior to this tenancy (if any), and provide them with your current address for billing. 
They will then send you a final bill to your current address and bill the tenants from last October. 

As long as you can prove you’re not liable and give them all the info, you won’t be held liable for the bill.

There shouldn’t be a final bill as they moved in the day the last tenants moved out. It’s good to hear that it’s not unusual as gives us hope for sorting it when we call the council in the morning. Huge shock to get the liability order letter though as that’s the first we knew obviously. 

sisko1982

greatcrested said:

macman said:

theartfullodger said:

Be careful, council tax debt can end you in jail

True, but there is nothing to indicate the OP's husband is liable in this case. ....

but equally there's not enough information to be certain of this

Thank you. I can’t see why we would be liable when we have tenants in there with tenancy agreement etc in place. Not a HMO etc. 

KatrinaWaves

sisko1982 said:

apologies for lack of response. 

They moved in the day old tenants moved out. The tenancy agreement has them down as being responsible for the utilities. 
I am presuming the council will have tried to make contact With occupier at the address first so that must have been ignored by them. 

Here’s hoping it’s an oversight by the tenants and not deliberate 

You are running a business so as part of that you should make a point of informing the council yourself of tenancy changes to avoid this happening again. Make sure the council have your address for void periods too, as that is who they will normally write to during periods they think are unoccupied due to lack of information to the contrary from anyone.

sisko1982

CIS said:

sisko1982 said:

we have received this morning a letter from a debt collection agency regarding council tax on my husbands rented out house. We have had no contact from the council to our address regarding an outstanding bill etc. 

It looks like his tenants haven’t paid council tax since they moved in last October. 

Is this our debt to pay? He’s on the council tax here and we have tenancy agreement etc showing the date they moved in and also bank statements showing their regular payments. 

We feel like we’ve lost our chance to fight as we’ve had no notice of this before they’ve gone to debt collection agent. And the first payment needs paying on Tuesday  when we got the letter this morning (sat) and there’s no one to contact anywhere till Monday as it’s a weekend 

It all comes down to s6 and s8 of the LGFA 1992 (slightly different if you're in Scotland).

If the property was rented as a whole, and it doesn't fall under the auspices of s8 of the LGFA 1992, then a non-resident landlord is not liable under s6(2)(f) - there's not enough information in the post however to determine where exactly it falls under ss6 and 8.

The fact that it's been sent to an enforcement agent (not a debt collector) doesn't mean it can't t makes no difference to the technical side of disputing the debt.

After not having to deal with enforcement agents for the last 6 months or so I'm starting to see them raise their heads again, yay.

There may be grounds, depending on what happened, and when, to dispute the liability order itself but that's a longer shot (it would stop the enforcement agents though).

The property is rented as a whole. My husband lives here. We had tenants in it before with no issues. 

Would the council not get the liability order amended when they have accurate details of whose debt it is? 

Do we need to inform the enforcement company that it’s not our debt too? The first payment should be made on 10th which is tomorrow and obviously that’s the first day we’ve got to deal with it due to the weekend etc. 

I have small children I really don’t want them turning up for somethings that’s not our debt. 

sisko1982

KatrinaWaves said:

sisko1982 said:

apologies for lack of response. 

They moved in the day old tenants moved out. The tenancy agreement has them down as being responsible for the utilities. 
I am presuming the council will have tried to make contact With occupier at the address first so that must have been ignored by them. 

Here’s hoping it’s an oversight by the tenants and not deliberate 

You are running a business so as part of that you should make a point of informing the council yourself of tenancy changes to avoid this happening again. Make sure the council have your address for void periods too, as that is who they will normally write to during periods they think are unoccupied due to lack of information to the contrary from anyone.

Absolutely. Consider this a lesson learnt. We have never had this with other tenants who have always sorted utilities themselves though so I guess we got lucky and complacent. More fool us. 

KatrinaWaves

sisko1982 said:

CIS said:

sisko1982 said:

we have received this morning a letter from a debt collection agency regarding council tax on my husbands rented out house. We have had no contact from the council to our address regarding an outstanding bill etc. 

It looks like his tenants haven’t paid council tax since they moved in last October. 

Is this our debt to pay? He’s on the council tax here and we have tenancy agreement etc showing the date they moved in and also bank statements showing their regular payments. 

We feel like we’ve lost our chance to fight as we’ve had no notice of this before they’ve gone to debt collection agent. And the first payment needs paying on Tuesday  when we got the letter this morning (sat) and there’s no one to contact anywhere till Monday as it’s a weekend 

It all comes down to s6 and s8 of the LGFA 1992 (slightly different if you're in Scotland).

If the property was rented as a whole, and it doesn't fall under the auspices of s8 of the LGFA 1992, then a non-resident landlord is not liable under s6(2)(f) - there's not enough information in the post however to determine where exactly it falls under ss6 and 8.

The fact that it's been sent to an enforcement agent (not a debt collector) doesn't mean it can't t makes no difference to the technical side of disputing the debt.

After not having to deal with enforcement agents for the last 6 months or so I'm starting to see them raise their heads again, yay.

There may be grounds, depending on what happened, and when, to dispute the liability order itself but that's a longer shot (it would stop the enforcement agents though).

The property is rented as a whole. My husband lives here. We had tenants in it before with no issues. 

Would the council not get the liability order amended when they have accurate details of whose debt it is? 

Do we need to inform the enforcement company that it’s not our debt too? The first payment should be made on 10th which is tomorrow and obviously that’s the first day we’ve got to deal with it due to the weekend etc. 

I have small children I really don’t want them turning up for somethings that’s not our debt. 

Currently it is YOUR debt, because no one has given them information to contradict that. Call them tomorrow, say you will be emailing them a copy of the tenancy as soon as you’re finished on the phone, and ask them to have the contact address for yourselves changed to your home address. 

They can not amend the liability order to the tenants as they haven’t billed them yet. They need to bill them and start recovery procedures if they fail to pay their instalments as billed. They can’t just jump straight to a liability order when they have never been billed.