Nissan Leaf EV, a good idea?

financialfreedomxo

Hi, 
Lately, I've been thinking about buying an electric vehicle (EV) because it seems cheaper to run than a diesel. I've chosen the Nissan Leaf because I think it's quite a good size and a great price. Apart from the fact that on long journeys you have to charge it, what other cons does it have? 

DrEskimo

Yea I moved to an EV Feb2019 and have loved it. I went with a Zoe as the price of a used 41kWh (without the battery lease) was similar to 24/30kWh Leafs. The extra range is nice and servicing and warranty extensions I think are quite a bit cheaper than the Leaf.

The Leaf also doesn't have active cooling for the batteries, so can suffer worse battery degradation than most other EVs.

My Zoe has barely depreciated (if at all) and running costs are so cheap. If you can charge at home and don't need to go beyond the range then an EV is ideal. Just spend some time understanding the different models and battery sizes.

ElefantEd

We're on our second Leaf (did 120k miles in the first one), and have upgraded to the 30kW version. Best car-buying decision we've ever made. Very cheap to run and maintain, and a smooth drive.

So long as you have the option of home charging and don't want to regularly drive hundreds of miles, it's a very good option. The range suffers in the winter by 10-20%. Also, the official range figures are imaginative. A 30kW Leaf has a real range of about 120 miles (summer) rather than the quotes 150ish. But if you normally drive less than 100 miles a day it's a no brainer. You can do longer journeys, it just takes a bit of planning, and will take longer than the same trip in an ICE car.

Petriix

The 40kWh Leaf is a vastly superior car to the 30, but that is reflected in the price difference. EVs are awesome, but they're so much more expensive than a regular car that you are unlikely to save any money on the total cost of ownership. You'd be better off buying a cheap, second hand, economic diesel; something with a small engine so low emissions and cheap VED (tax).

Aside from the initial outlay, and the obvious limitations in doing longer journeys, there are a whole lot of pros and few cons to owning an EV. 

DrEskimo

Petriix said:

The 40kWh Leaf is a vastly superior car to the 30, but that is reflected in the price difference. EVs are awesome, but they're so much more expensive than a regular car that you are unlikely to save any money on the total cost of ownership. You'd be better off buying a cheap, second hand, economic diesel; something with a small engine so low emissions and cheap VED (tax).

Aside from the initial outlay, and the obvious limitations in doing longer journeys, there are a whole lot of pros and few cons to owning an EV. 

I wouldn't be so sure....

Whilst the purchase price is generally higher, the residual value is much better making depreciation costs low. Whilst this may not be always true, and is dependent on the price you buy, in my particular case running an EV for the last 18months has been similar to the costs of petrol for an ICE alone.

I've done 4,500 and my partners Mini does about 35MPG. At an average cost of £1.20/lt, if I was to borrow my partners car and just pay for petrol, that would be ~£700.

EV costs over 18-months/4,500miles
Depreciation ~£500 based on current trade valuations
Service £88 (although i've got 2 free services)
Electricity - (4,500miles at average of 4mi/kWh is 1,125kWh. ~1,250 adjusting for charging losses. At £0.05/kWh on Octopus GO EV tariff) £62.50
MOT - £40

Total - £690.50

Petriix

DrEskimo said:

Petriix said:

The 40kWh Leaf is a vastly superior car to the 30, but that is reflected in the price difference. EVs are awesome, but they're so much more expensive than a regular car that you are unlikely to save any money on the total cost of ownership. You'd be better off buying a cheap, second hand, economic diesel; something with a small engine so low emissions and cheap VED (tax).

Aside from the initial outlay, and the obvious limitations in doing longer journeys, there are a whole lot of pros and few cons to owning an EV. 

I wouldn't be so sure....

Whilst the purchase price is generally higher, the residual value is much better making depreciation costs low. Whilst this may not be always true, and is dependent on the price you buy, in my particular case running an EV for the last 18months has been similar to the costs of petrol for an ICE alone.

I've done 4,500 and my partners Mini does about 35MPG. At an average cost of £1.20/lt, if I was to borrow my partners car and just pay for petrol, that would be ~£700.

EV costs over 18-months/4,500miles
Depreciation ~£500 based on current trade valuations
Service £88 (although i've got 2 free services)
Electricity - (4,500miles at average of 4mi/kWh is 1,125kWh. ~1,250 adjusting for charging losses. At £0.05/kWh on Octopus GO EV tariff) £62.50
MOT - £40

Total - £690.50

That's definitely true for your recent period of ownership and, although it's not guaranteed, I suspect that EVs will continue to hold their value. However, unless you're planning on cashing out, the residual value in no way helps to offset the enormous initial outlay.

DrEskimo

Petriix said:

DrEskimo said:

Petriix said:

The 40kWh Leaf is a vastly superior car to the 30, but that is reflected in the price difference. EVs are awesome, but they're so much more expensive than a regular car that you are unlikely to save any money on the total cost of ownership. You'd be better off buying a cheap, second hand, economic diesel; something with a small engine so low emissions and cheap VED (tax).

Aside from the initial outlay, and the obvious limitations in doing longer journeys, there are a whole lot of pros and few cons to owning an EV. 

I wouldn't be so sure....

Whilst the purchase price is generally higher, the residual value is much better making depreciation costs low. Whilst this may not be always true, and is dependent on the price you buy, in my particular case running an EV for the last 18months has been similar to the costs of petrol for an ICE alone.

I've done 4,500 and my partners Mini does about 35MPG. At an average cost of £1.20/lt, if I was to borrow my partners car and just pay for petrol, that would be ~£700.

EV costs over 18-months/4,500miles
Depreciation ~£500 based on current trade valuations
Service £88 (although i've got 2 free services)
Electricity - (4,500miles at average of 4mi/kWh is 1,125kWh. ~1,250 adjusting for charging losses. At £0.05/kWh on Octopus GO EV tariff) £62.50
MOT - £40

Total - £690.50

That's definitely true for your recent period of ownership and, although it's not guaranteed, I suspect that EVs will continue to hold their value. However, unless you're planning on cashing out, the residual value in no way helps to offset the enormous initial outlay.

Apple to apple comparisons of EV to ICE reveal the price parity isn't always enormous. Case in point, a similar aged/mileage/spec/trim Clio to my Zoe was only around £4k cheaper. I certainly think it's a barrier to entry, but I would sooner buy a £15k EV knowing it will depreciate much less than an equivalent ICE at ~£10k.

However, there is a lack of low cost option, or much older EVs to make cost parity with older ICE difficult. Not to mention that older EV's do tend to be much lower in range and charging speeds (not necessarily a deal breaker depending on your use).

Be interesting to see what the landscape is like when the 40/50kWh models over the last 3 years start hitting 10-years+, as I don't see a great need for battery capacities and charging speeds to increase much more than they are for these models. I suspect they will still be a relatively a small proportion of available cars that the demand will keep prices buoyant for a while yet as you say!

Herzlos

financialfreedomxo said:

Hi, 
Lately, I've been thinking about buying an electric vehicle (EV) because it seems cheaper to run than a diesel. I've chosen the Nissan Leaf because I think it's quite a good size and a great price. Apart from the fact that on long journeys you have to charge it, what other cons does it have? 

That's pretty much the extend of the cons - you need to charge after 100ish miles, but you can charge pretty quickly and it's good to take a break anyway. If you can stick under the battery range and only charge at home/work, you may find that the Leaf is costing you less to own than just the fuel from your previous car.

That said; I'd only consider it if I had a private driveway and could get a charging point fitted. That way you've got a car that's fully fueled every morning and never need to go to a petrol station.

Herzlos

financialfreedomxo said:

Hi, 
Lately, I've been thinking about buying an electric vehicle (EV) because it seems cheaper to run than a diesel. I've chosen the Nissan Leaf because I think it's quite a good size and a great price. Apart from the fact that on long journeys you have to charge it, what other cons does it have? 

That's pretty much the extend of the cons - you need to charge after 100ish miles, but you can charge pretty quickly and it's good to take a break anyway. If you can stick under the battery range and only charge at home/work, you may find that the Leaf is costing you less to own than just the fuel from your previous car.

That said; I'd only consider it if I had a private driveway and could get a charging point fitted. That way you've got a car that's fully fueled every morning and never need to go to a petrol station.

financialfreedomxo

DrEskimo said:

Yea I moved to an EV Feb2019 and have loved it. I went with a Zoe as the price of a used 41kWh (without the battery lease) was similar to 24/30kWh Leafs. The extra range is nice and servicing and warranty extensions I think are quite a bit cheaper than the Leaf.

The Leaf also doesn't have active cooling for the batteries, so can suffer worse battery degradation than most other EVs.

My Zoe has barely depreciated (if at all) and running costs are so cheap. If you can charge at home and don't need to go beyond the range then an EV is ideal. Just spend some time understanding the different models and battery sizes.

Thank you for you reply. Yes, I do need a deeper understanding of battery sizes. I'll do a generic search tonight. Do you have any sources you can suggest?

financialfreedomxo

ElefantEd said:

We're on our second Leaf (did 120k miles in the first one), and have upgraded to the 30kW version. Best car-buying decision we've ever made. Very cheap to run and maintain, and a smooth drive.

So long as you have the option of home charging and don't want to regularly drive hundreds of miles, it's a very good option. The range suffers in the winter by 10-20%. Also, the official range figures are imaginative. A 30kW Leaf has a real range of about 120 miles (summer) rather than the quotes 150ish. But if you normally drive less than 100 miles a day it's a no brainer. You can do longer journeys, it just takes a bit of planning, and will take longer than the same trip in an ICE car.

Thanks for the reply. I'm mostly hoping to use it for a short commute to work. About 50-60 miles max a day. So that's quite good to read. Do you find that your insurance has reduced as well? When you go for maintenance, what exactly do they look into?