Retaining wall collapsed whilst viewing!

A_Lert

jen_79 said:

the owner wants me to arrange quotes and then pay to fix it.

Lol no.

Tell the agent they're lucky you weren't injured by the collapse of their unsafe wall, and you won't be paying anything.

If they really want to take you to court they can do so. I expect they'd be laughed out of court.

[Deleted User]

What I want to know is if the OP does put an offer in will she tell the seller that the offer is reduced slightly because the wall has fallen over? 

jen_79

Thanks everyone for your input. In an attempt to defend myself, though I did notice cracks in the mortar when walking up the stairs I didn't really think much of it. I walked around the garden, looked around the fences, walked down the other side, looked around inside the garage, went back up, talked to the agent and we just happened to stop at this wall when I placed my hand on it. More along the lines of putting your weight on a floorboard gradually to see if it will support you, not shoving my foot through it as violently as possible. When I say "give it a wobble" I didn't actually expect it to move and I could lean on it while chatting.

I wasn't actively thinking, I best give this a good shove to see what happens it was more like a car salesman slapping his hand on a car roof, except unbeknownst to him, the cars axles were rotted, the wheels fell off and it flipped over a cliff. 

I didn't exert even 10% of the pressure required to open a window, let alone push a brick wall over. It was unfortunate that it had a 6ft drop so smashed to bits. The estate agent had already pointed out problem areas (a failed double glazed window, a rotting door on a store room, old boiler) and they didn't mention this. I honestly believe I could have had the wall land on my head if the wind had blown the wrong way as I was walking under it.

There is no way to repair it, it needs replaced, I just don't think I'm to blame, I'm just the moron who caused what was inevitable. 

thearchitect

If a member of the public, with little or no pressure, can push over a retaining wall then it would have been defective and in all probability dangerous.

Sometimes, as I put a knife into rotten timber during a survey, a householder will suggest I have damaged their property.  I have to explain that if I can push in a knife then it is already defective.

AW618

thearchitect said:

If a member of the public, with little or no pressure, can push over a retaining wall then it would have been defective and in all probability dangerous.

Sometimes, as I put a knife into rotten timber during a survey, a householder will suggest I have damaged their property.  I have to explain that if I can push in a knife then it is already defective.

We all know that.  the question is whether, knowing something is defective, you should avoid doing anything that will damage it further.  Putting a knife into rotting wood causes no damage; that's why you do it.
Whether the wall was dangerous is completely beside the point.

davidmcn

If it needed rebuilt anyway then I doubt the fact it's already collapsed makes much difference to the costs of fixing it.

AW618

jen_79 said:

Thanks everyone for your input. In an attempt to defend myself, though I did notice cracks in the mortar when walking up the stairs I didn't really think much of it. I walked around the garden, looked around the fences, walked down the other side, looked around inside the garage, went back up, talked to the agent and we just happened to stop at this wall when I placed my hand on it. More along the lines of putting your weight on a floorboard gradually to see if it will support you, not shoving my foot through it as violently as possible. When I say "give it a wobble" I didn't actually expect it to move and I could lean on it while chatting.

I wasn't actively thinking, I best give this a good shove to see what happens it was more like a car salesman slapping his hand on a car roof, except unbeknownst to him, the cars axles were rotted, the wheels fell off and it flipped over a cliff. 

I didn't exert even 10% of the pressure required to open a window, let alone push a brick wall over. It was unfortunate that it had a 6ft drop so smashed to bits. The estate agent had already pointed out problem areas (a failed double glazed window, a rotting door on a store room, old boiler) and they didn't mention this. I honestly believe I could have had the wall land on my head if the wind had blown the wrong way as I was walking under it.

There is no way to repair it, it needs replaced, I just don't think I'm to blame, I'm just the moron who caused what was inevitable. 

The question, in my view hinges on whether you leant on the wall or gave it a test to see how strong it was.  I feel you would be far better off saying you had no conception the wall was weak and just leant on it the way you would on any wall; whereupon it collapsed.   What have you said in your responses to the estate agent so far?  

Jeepers_Creepers

jen_79 said:

Thanks everyone for your input. In an attempt to defend myself, though I did notice cracks in the mortar when walking up the stairs I didn't really think much of it. I walked around the garden, looked around the fences, walked down the other side, looked around inside the garage, went back up, talked to the agent and we just happened to stop at this wall when I placed my hand on it. More along the lines of putting your weight on a floorboard gradually to see if it will support you, not shoving my foot through it as violently as possible. When I say "give it a wobble" I didn't actually expect it to move and I could lean on it while chatting.

I wasn't actively thinking, I best give this a good shove to see what happens it was more like a car salesman slapping his hand on a car roof, except unbeknownst to him, the cars axles were rotted, the wheels fell off and it flipped over a cliff. 

I didn't exert even 10% of the pressure required to open a window, let alone push a brick wall over. It was unfortunate that it had a 6ft drop so smashed to bits. The estate agent had already pointed out problem areas (a failed double glazed window, a rotting door on a store room, old boiler) and they didn't mention this. I honestly believe I could have had the wall land on my head if the wind had blown the wrong way as I was walking under it.

There is no way to repair it, it needs replaced, I just don't think I'm to blame, I'm just the moron who caused what was inevitable. 

Clearly what actually happened is, you casually leant on the wall with one hand as you chatted to the EA, as one often does. The wall gave way. That's what happened, isn't it? No wobbling, no testing, now't. That's what's put in any response to any attempted claim. 

Apart from the fact that you also 'tweaked' your back when the wall departed so unexpectedly and you had to respond instantly to pull yourself upright so as not to end up falling over the 6' drop along with the wall. You didn't want to make a fuss about this twinge in your lower back at the time as you were so alarmed by the crashing wall and the serious damage and hurt that could have been caused. But, now that the vendor is mentioning liability...  

And, of course, the price for the property needs to reflect the work required to get the garden into shape.

Scotbot

AW618 said:

Scotbot said:

AW618 said:

Scotbot said:

I assume from your user name you are female and unless you are built like an olympic shot putter you would have to do a damn site more than lean against a wall for it to fall down.  Ignore them, if they follow up say  that you were very surprised by the condition of the property and what happened but as you were not injured you won't be persuing it further.  They won't be taking you to court, they are overseas and won't get anywhere anyhow.  Remember the agent is just the messenger.

Well her claim is that she did lean on it, and it did fall down, so I am not sure what point you are trying to make.  If you mean "you would have to do more than lean against a sound wall for it to fall down", well, yes, but nobody is contesting that it is a sound wall.
If it was clearly an unsound wall and if she went out of her way to put weight on it knowing it to be unsound then I would find it easier to accept  that she has some culpability.  In fact in her original post she appears to accept that it was clearly unsound and she in fact wobbled the wall expressly to find out exactly how unsound it was.  I am not sure that that story absolves her at all.

We agree the wall was unsound.  The OP is not responsible for the condition of the wall the vendor is and it is his or her fault that it was not fit for purpose. Whatever the OP did  (and my point is not that much assuming she is an average sized female ) it is the vendors fault the wall fell down as he or she did not maintain it.

No, I don't know that you are right.  If someone knows something is unsound, that introduces a duty of care on them to not do anything that could be done to a sound wall.  If you wobble something to see if it falls over, that in and of itself indicates that it occurred to them that it might fall over.  Why else would they do it?  I am not a lawyer, and I don't know what the law would say, but I don't think you can assume that just because something is unsound you can take no blame for it collapsing if you have gone out of your way to interact with it in a way that you knew might cause that - and in this case, deliberately to see if it did collapse.

But she didn't know it was unsound,  until she touched it! She noticed it was showing signs of wear and tear, she didn't expect it to fall down.
I have a wall in my garden that has a crack in it, I have tried to dismantle  it as I would like to remove it and got absolutely nowhere other than removing a couple of bricks. Perhaps I should invite the OP over to wave her magic touch!

onwards&upwards

ChewyyBacca said:

woah!! 
During viewing, its normal to open kitchen cupboards, windows, closet doors, built in wardrobes etc. If the door comes off in your hand, are you liable to pay for it? This is ridiculous!

Pretty sure its not normal (or polite) to open people's wardrobes and drawers on a viewing actually!