Section 75 question

mpet

Briefly- I booked a villa rental from a US management company. Found out from the owner of the property they changed management companies months ago and had no record or payment for my booking.

In accordance with the booking T’s & C’s I requested a refund. I was given a runaround so raised a Section 75 claim with Santander ‘goods not supplied’. Payment was made over 120 days ago, so not dealt with as a chargeback.

I have now heard from the owner of the company saying he has sold it due to financial difficulties. My question- does this count as no longer trading/in liquidation and would I need to change my S75 claim.

born_again

I would leave it as it is.
But why no chargeback?
While you may have made the original payment more than 120 days ago. The 120 would start from the date of the stay. Up to a max of 540 days from the actual 1st debit.

mpet

born_again said:

I would leave it as it is.
But why no chargeback?
While you may have made the original payment more than 120 days ago. The 120 would start from the date of the stay. Up to a max of 540 days from the actual 1st debit.

Thank you - I did discuss this with Santander after looking at their written guidance and they didn’t advise that it could go via a chargeback.

Should I ask them to change it to a chargeback, or leave it as is?

born_again

Leave it with them.
S75 is coming out of their pocket.

eddddy

mpet said:

Briefly- I booked a villa rental from a US management company. Found out from the owner of the property they changed management companies months ago and had no record or payment for my booking.

You should check who your contract is with, and who you paid by credit card.

With UK holiday rentals, often your contract is with the property owner, but you pay the booking company - and they pass on the payment to the property owner.  That makes the booking company an intermediary - so you don't get section 75 cover.

Maybe find out if the US management company works in the same way. 

Sandtree

eddddy said:
With UK holiday rentals, often your contract is with the property owner, but you pay the booking company - and they pass on the payment to the property owner.  That makes the booking company an intermediary - so you don't get section 75 cover.

You do still get S75 but only for the services provided by the booking company... ie if they failed to actually book the villa with the owner you'd have a valid claim but if there was an issue with your stay etc then there is no claim because thats not related to the booking company's services.

eddddy

Sandtree said:

eddddy said:
With UK holiday rentals, often your contract is with the property owner, but you pay the booking company - and they pass on the payment to the property owner.  That makes the booking company an intermediary - so you don't get section 75 cover.

You do still get S75 but only for the services provided by the booking company... ie if they failed to actually book the villa with the owner you'd have a valid claim but if there was an issue with your stay etc then there is no claim because thats not related to the booking company's services.

I'm not sure it's that clear cut. Typically, you have no contract with the booking company.

• Typically, the booking company is the property owner's agent. They are not your agent.

• So you have not made a contract with the booking company to make a property booking for you.

• You have made a contract with the property owner, and the property owner has instructed their agent (the booking company) to deal with it on the property owner's behalf.

There may be an issue of misrepresentation (or even fraud) here, as the property owner is suggesting that they had terminated their contract with the management company before the booking was made. But then it's a question of whether the property owner is telling the truth and the contract really had been terminated.

If there was misrepresentation  (because the contract had been terminated) - section 75 might be relevant. But it's getting complex. 

But first of all, the OP needs to read their contract, to see who it is with and check their CC statement to see who they paid.

mpet

eddddy said:

Sandtree said:

eddddy said:
With UK holiday rentals, often your contract is with the property owner, but you pay the booking company - and they pass on the payment to the property owner.  That makes the booking company an intermediary - so you don't get section 75 cover.

You do still get S75 but only for the services provided by the booking company... ie if they failed to actually book the villa with the owner you'd have a valid claim but if there was an issue with your stay etc then there is no claim because thats not related to the booking company's services.

I'm not sure it's that clear cut. Typically, you have no contract with the booking company.

• Typically, the booking company is the property owner's agent. They are not your agent.

• So you have not made a contract with the booking company to make a property booking for you.

• You have made a contract with the property owner, and the property owner has instructed their agent (the booking company) to deal with it on the property owner's behalf.

There may be an issue of misrepresentation (or even fraud) here, as the property owner is suggesting that they had terminated their contract with the management company before the booking was made. But then it's a question of whether the property owner is telling the truth and the contract really had been terminated.

If there was misrepresentation  (because the contract had been terminated) - section 75 might be relevant. But it's getting complex. 

But first of all, the OP needs to read their contract, to see who it is with and check their CC statement to see who they paid.

I believe I have a contract with the management company. I have a paper contract with their details on which I signed and payment was made to them. Nowhere on the contract does it mention the owner of the property.

Also I don’t just have the owners word that they changed management company. I have it confirmed from the management company as well.

eddddy

mpet said:

I believe I have a contract with the management company. I have a paper contract with their details on which I signed and payment was made to them. Nowhere on the contract does it mention the owner of the property.

Also I don’t just have the owners word that they changed management company. I have it confirmed from the management company as well.

That sounds good. So if the management company has breached the contract, the credit card company are jointly liable under section 75.

So you seem to suggest that the contract (t &cs) say that you are due a refund. So you need to point out that term in the contract to the CC company, and explain that it has been breached.

You mention 'Goods not supplied' - that sounds like a chargeback reason code - and perhaps a bad one. Has the date of your holiday passed yet? If not, the management company may say that they still intend to honour the contract.

(For example, the new owner of the property may honour the booking, and/or does the contract allow the management company to substitute a different property (of equivalent quality), if your chosen one becomes unavailable?)


Edit to add...
Or maybe you could try a chargeback for "refund not processed" / "credit not processed" - if they have confirmed that they will be refund you, but haven't.

mpet

eddddy said:

mpet said:

I believe I have a contract with the management company. I have a paper contract with their details on which I signed and payment was made to them. Nowhere on the contract does it mention the owner of the property.

Also I don’t just have the owners word that they changed management company. I have it confirmed from the management company as well.

That sounds good. So if the management company has breached the contract, the credit card company are jointly liable under section 75.

So you seem to suggest that the contract (t &cs) say that you are due a refund. So you need to point out that term in the contract to the CC company, and explain that it has been breached.

You mention 'Goods not supplied' - that sounds like a chargeback reason code - and perhaps a bad one. Has the date of your holiday passed yet? If not, the management company may say that they still intend to honour the contract.

(For example, the new owner of the property may honour the booking, and/or does the contract allow the management company to substitute a different property (of equivalent quality), if your chosen one becomes unavailable?)

The owner of the property hasn’t changed - just the management company. I have confirmed with the owner that they have received no monies for my booking. So if I wanted to rebook I would have to pay again.

With regard to the category of ‘goods not supplied’, I initially called Santander to explain the situation and that is the category they allocated.

The t’s & c’s clearly state if a booking is cancelled by them a full refund will be made (they have also confirmed this by email).
It may be they were going to try and put us in another property, but the contract specifically gives the address of the property we booked.
However, this is probably irrelevant now, as they have no properties as the owner has sold the company.

eddddy

mpet said:
The owner of the property hasn’t changed - just the management company. I have confirmed with the owner that they have received no monies for my booking. So if I wanted to rebook I would have to pay again.

With regard to the category of ‘goods not supplied’, I initially called Santander to explain the situation and that is the category they allocated.

The t’s & c’s clearly state if a booking is cancelled by them a full refund will be made (they have also confirmed this by email).
It may be they were going to try and put us in another property, but the contract specifically gives the address of the property we booked.
However, this is probably irrelevant now, as they have no properties as the owner has sold the company.

OK. So just let the chargeback claim go through and see if it's challenged - maybe you'll be lucky and nobody will bother challenging it.

Making a section 75 claim might be more difficult, because...

• Has there been a breach of contract yet?  Read the contract and point at the term you believe has been breached.(And you can copy that specific term here, if you want.)

• You cannot make a claim because you suspect that a breach of contract might occur in the future.

• You mention cancellation - has the management company told you (in writing) that they have cancelled your booking?

A lot of what you say seems to be based on 'hearsay' comments by the property owner, who may have some kind of grudge. It's unlikely that the CC company will take any notice of 'hearsay'. There'll only be interested in contractual terms between you and the management company.

You need to build-up a watertight case, otherwise there's the risk that the management company will challenge the chargeback, and then say something like "We arranged accommodation on the date agreed, and you didn't turn up."