Organic vs Free Range

SarahLu

Hello,

I know there have been lots of discussions about organic food on here, but I can't find the answer to my question so apologies if I am duplicating a question that has already been asked.

I have made the decision to to switch to either organic or free range meat.  I have already cut down my meat consumption but now want to improve the quality and welfare of what I am buying.  Based on what I can afford, I have narrowed it down to two websites which are both well known - Abel & Cole (Organic) and Field & Flower ( Free range).  The organic is of course a bit more expensive.  Initially you would assume that organic would be better but having read the FAQ page on F&F website I'm not so sure (https://www.fieldandflower.co.uk/about-us/faq).  It explains here that they sometimes go over and above organic requirements in terms of feed etc and the main difference I can see is that they don't rule out the use of antibiotics, implying that this is sometimes better for the animal welfare (I am quite ignorant on this, so not sure if true?) and they take steps to avoid this entering the food chain. They also provide information on what the animals are fed.

So my questions are, on balance is it worth paying more for organic as opposed to the standards that seem to be on offer from F&F?  Is it indeed sometimes better to not deny the use of antibiotics?  Is there some other benefit to organic that I am missing? 

Either of these options seem to be a step up from buying supermarket meat, I am just wondering which is best to go for.

Thanks

badger09

There's a poster who is very knowledgeable in this area - MrsStepford. Hopefully she'll be along soon.  

Mojisola

SarahLu said:

I have made the decision to to switch to either organic or free range meat. 
Initially you would assume that organic would be better but having read the FAQ page on F&F website I'm not so sure (https://www.fieldandflower.co.uk/about-us/faq).  It explains here that they sometimes go over and above organic requirements in terms of feed etc and the main difference I can see is that they don't rule out the use of antibiotics, implying that this is sometimes better for the animal welfare

This is the same for both systems - animal welfare takes priority so, if an animal needs antibiotics, they will get them.  There are withdrawal details set down for organic systems.

It's quite expensive to be registered organic so there are very good farms working along similar lines who aren't registered.

Farms from areas where all-year grazing can be achieved will usually do so; it's just not practical in some areas which is why the organic standards set the 60% daily minimum.

I would try the F&F and see if you are happy with the quality of the meat.

SarahLu

Thanks badger, I will be interested to hear your take @MrsStepford  

Interesting info about the antibiotics Mojisola, thanks.  I think am also leaning towards F&F at the moment purely as I can't seem to see much of a downside to them, but as I've decided to make this change I want to do it properly.  They do sound good though, lots of info about the farmers and it seems for all intents and purposes to be more or less as good as organic but for a cheaper price.

Interested to hear any other opinions

jon81uk

This is a little unrelated to your question.
But when I worked as a cheesemonger I remember being told that one cheesemaker was switching to organic milk production on their farm and was importing organic feed from China as they couldn't get enough locally. Then they realised, they know the farmer down the road and that he has perfectly good silage, but he isn't certified organic. They realised importing certified food makes no sense and switched to buying non-organic, but potentially better feed from their neighbour.

SarahLu

jon81uk said:

This is a little unrelated to your question.
But when I worked as a cheesemonger I remember being told that one cheesemaker was switching to organic milk production on their farm and was importing organic feed from China as they couldn't get enough locally. Then they realised, they know the farmer down the road and that he has perfectly good silage, but he isn't certified organic. They realised importing certified food makes no sense and switched to buying non-organic, but potentially better feed from their neighbour.

Yes, it's not always as simple as it seems is it, lots of different factors to consider.  It makes it very complicated when you're trying to be as responsible as possible, there's often more to it than just that organic certification.

Farway

Mojisola said:

SarahLu said:

I have made the decision to to switch to either organic or free range meat. 
Initially you would assume that organic would be better but having read the FAQ page on F&F website I'm not so sure (https://www.fieldandflower.co.uk/about-us/faq).  It explains here that they sometimes go over and above organic requirements in terms of feed etc and the main difference I can see is that they don't rule out the use of antibiotics, implying that this is sometimes better for the animal welfare

This is the same for both systems - animal welfare takes priority so, if an animal needs antibiotics, they will get them.  There are withdrawal details set down for organic systems.

It's quite expensive to be registered organic so there are very good farms working along similar lines who aren't registered.

Farms from areas where all-year grazing can be achieved will usually do so; it's just not practical in some areas which is why the organic standards set the 60% daily minimum.

I would try the F&F and see if you are happy with the quality of the meat.

I agree, it's a step up from supermarket and you have full traceability

Have you checked out https://www.farmerschoice.co.uk/ ?

I use them, mainly because the meat is fairly local to me [not on commission BTW], one advantage I can see over  F & F is the meat is flash frozen just before delivery, which saves a job and is convenient

SarahLu

Farway said:

I agree, it's a step up from supermarket and you have full traceability

Have you checked out https://www.farmerschoice.co.uk/ ?

I use them, mainly because the meat is fairly local to me [not on commission BTW], one advantage I can see over  F & F is the meat is flash frozen just before delivery, which saves a job and is convenient

Thanks, no I haven't come across that one.  I will take a look at them now.

MrsStepford

I'm here, sorry about that..

The difference between free range and organic, is legal terminology, just like home-made and home-cooked at a pub. Home-cooked can be bought in catering ready meals zapped in a microwave, whereas home-made has to be made on the premises. 

Free range means that the poultry or animals have access to the outdoors. It doesn't mean that they spend their whole day, frolicking in meadows. There is a British Free Range Egg Producers Association https://www.bfrepa.co.uk/ but I'm not aware of any other association. When sausages are labelled 'outdoor bred' it mere;y means that the pork in the sausages, comes from pigs which were born outdoors. It doesn't mean the pigs spent their entire lives outside.

Organic is a method of production with the strictest rules on animal welfare, antibiotic use and feed. The animals can't be fed genetically-modified feed and the pasture can't be sprayed with chemical fertiliser, for example. When the poultry or meat is butchered, it can't have water added whereas conventional meat and poultry as sold by supermarkets can have 11% water in it, perfectly legally. 

Certification gives traceability, but not all organic farms are certified, because it's expensive. There is now a third certification, Pasture for Life, from the Pasture-Fed Livestock Association https://www.pastureforlife.org/ This is a farmer-led association. Some of the farms are organic, some aren't. 

How to buy the best meat, poultry, eggs etc organic or not... second post

MrsStepford

I've been eating mostly organic and wild since 2012. I've heard the name Field & Flower, but I don't know anything about them or know anyone who has their boxes. I have been a customer of Abel & Cole since 2012 and Riverford since 2017.  

With Abel & Cole, you don't have to have a box, you just need to order 12.50 worth of stuff. Delivery is 1.50. No time slot and a fixed day of the week, so you need to have a safe place for them to leave it. If you're lucky, your driver will deliver really early and you can put it all away before you go to work/out. The organic chickens really do spend their time outside during the day in summer. You can look at videos on the Abel and Cole channel on YouTube (same goes for Riverford). Look carefully at the meat and poultry now. Since being bought by the William Jackson Group (as in Aunt Bessie's) A&C has concentrated their organic meat and poultry to fewer producers, who can deal with higher volume, eg Daylesford Farm (owned by JCB) and Eversfield (also Pasture for Life-certified). Abel & Cole is really expensive for things like bell peppers, cauliflower, avocadoes, carrots, onions. 

ASDA and Morrisons allow £25 deliveries now, so I get all the above from them midweek. ASDA doesn't sell any organic meat and poultry. Morrisons only sells organic chicken. Waitrose has the excellent but expensive Duchy organic range but minimum order is £60. Sainsburys SO organic range is great for pantry stuff eg teabags, half the Clipper price at 1.50 and better, Mayo, French dressing etc. The meat and poultry is not good quality. I don't recommend it. 

Riverford  is owned by the employees and most of the stuff comes from their own farms. You have to have a box but from end of August you can build your own. Free delivery. Meat and poultry minimum order is £15 but it's fantastic quality. After trying Riverford ribeye, I would never have Sainsbury's steaks again. 

So ASDA or Morrisons for mainstream veg, (Lidl also good if they have any),  Abel & Cole or Riverford for dairy, Sainsbury's SO organic for pantry stuff and tea. 

Waitrose Duchy is the only supermarket unhomogenised organic milk, Abel & Cole and Riverford milks aren't homogenised either. All the rest are. 

Local butchers - some have their own farms so even if not organic you should be able to ask questions or even go to an open day hopefully. It's often much better quality than supermarket organic. Looking for local farms and independent butchers locally, would be a good first step. 

Price doesn't matter for veg, but it does for meat and poultry. There's no difference between a Lidl organic onion and a Waitrose Duchy one, except maybe size. 

Yeo Valley used to be an independent family farm in Somerset. Arla, a huge Swedish dairy processor, bought the Yeo Valley brand license, so it may well change to non-organic or stay organic but drop the Somerset. 
Buying any Yeo Valley product from a supermarket is usually cheaper than from Abel & Cole. Riverford doesn't sell it. 

ASDA, Morrisons and Sainsbury's all do own-brand organic cheeses at decent prices. Sainsbury's has the most choice. If you want cheese for cooking, suggest stashing some of these in freezer. Abel & Cole does have a good range of speciality cheese as does Waitrose. 

Buying from the producer isn't necessarily cheaper. Calon Wen sells its organic butter for 50p more per block, than Abel & Cole, even before postage. 

Amazon can be good for organic stuff, especially if you have Prime. I get Equal Exchange organic peanut butter for example. Just peanuts. 

Aldi does quite a few organic wines, which can be bought online. All the reds we have tried were good. Unsure that Sainsbury's still does SO organic wines. 

Mysaronelol

I don't quite understand what it means - organic.