Subsidence in house I am renting

Deiseen

Hi All,
Any help with this would be appreciated.
I am currently renting a house that has been subsiding now for a number of years. The landlord is dealing with it but everything going through the insurers/engineering company appears to be taking an age. This is what the landlord is telling me and I have no reason to question this, we have had people round for a large number of measurements and an engineer recently visited to determine the scope of work.
The damage up until recently has been mostly cosmetic but now we have the following issues:
1. Plaster above our bed is cracking and separating resulting in bits of grit falling on around the bed (and on us). Nothing major but obviously annoying and we do no want to be breathing this dust. 
2. There are now gaps starting to open up that have us worried for the winter. In our bedroom I can now see tiny slivers of daylight through the wall. Nothing hugely significant but obviously worrying none the less.
3. The windows open/close but are getting harder and harder to do so as the weeks go by.

My questions here are the following:.
1. Is there a possibility we will have to vacate due to the house being deemed uninhabitable? Keep in mind that it's not damp, cold or structurally dangerous (at the moment)
2. If we do have to vacate what are our rights if we have to:
i. Permanently vacate
ii. Temporarily vacate
3. If the household is deemed uninhabitable by the insurer/engineers by the insurers, can we still choose to stay if we provide confirmation in writing? What are the risks to us in doing this, other than being hurt as a result of the subsidence?
4. Would the engineering companies version of habitability differ from the legal understanding? In the sense that it might increase the urgency for them to fix the issue but that we would have no issue remaining in the property?

Quite a lot to pick apart there but any help would be appreciated.

princeofpounds

This should answer most of your questions.
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/moving_out_during_repairs
https://www.gov.uk/renting-out-a-property/making-repairs


1. Yes, its possible, but if it's not dangerous or you need to vacate for major repairs it won't happen yet. There needs to be a proper legal reason of sufficient seriousness, or a natural end to the tenancy that technically has nothing to do with the repairs.

2. If you have to temporarily vacate for repairs, basically the landlord has to provide suitable alternative accommodation (as per the links above). The tenancy stays in force, you get to move back in when it's done. 

If you have to permanently vacate, it depends how it happens:
- The landlord may follow a normal process to terminate the tenancy. You get your Section 21 notice and leave. Or not, and the landlord has to get a court order.
- Or they may insist that the repairs are sufficiently large that you need to move out and the tenancy needs to end early. You can either agree, or you can disagree - then he needs to get a court order.
- Or the property collapses, gets condemned by the authorities and the tenancy becomes 'frustrated' as there is no property to rent any more, the tenancy ends and that's it. 

There's also the issue of rent abatement for loss of use of part of the home. A negotiation is better because going to court for one is a lot of effort for an uncertain outcome.

3. It's not really your choice that matters. It would be the landlord's choice (or the court's, if you dispute it), and he is likely to want you out because he would be negligent to leave you in place. His insurance will stop covering damage to you and your possessions.

4. Yes and no. The engineers may use the word 'habitable' differently to a court, but not in a way that matters. They will probably make no explicit judgement on 'habitability' - it's not an engineering term. But they may judge it unsafe, and no court is going to disagree with that given the 'reasonable person' test. 

Deiseen

princeofpounds said:

This should answer most of your questions.
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/moving_out_during_repairs
https://www.gov.uk/renting-out-a-property/making-repairs


1. Yes, its possible, but if it's not dangerous or you need to vacate for major repairs it won't happen yet. There needs to be a proper legal reason of sufficient seriousness, or a natural end to the tenancy that technically has nothing to do with the repairs.

2. If you have to temporarily vacate for repairs, basically the landlord has to provide suitable alternative accommodation (as per the links above). The tenancy stays in force, you get to move back in when it's done. 

If you have to permanently vacate, it depends how it happens:
- The landlord may follow a normal process to terminate the tenancy. You get your Section 21 notice and leave. Or not, and the landlord has to get a court order.
- Or they may insist that the repairs are sufficiently large that you need to move out and the tenancy needs to end early. You can either agree, or you can disagree - then he needs to get a court order.
- Or the property collapses, gets condemned by the authorities and the tenancy becomes 'frustrated' as there is no property to rent any more, the tenancy ends and that's it. 

There's also the issue of rent abatement for loss of use of part of the home. A negotiation is better because going to court for one is a lot of effort for an uncertain outcome.

3. It's not really your choice that matters. It would be the landlord's choice (or the court's, if you dispute it), and he is likely to want you out because he would be negligent to leave you in place. His insurance will stop covering damage to you and your possessions.

4. Yes and no. The engineers may use the word 'habitable' differently to a court, but not in a way that matters. They will probably make no explicit judgement on 'habitability' - it's not an engineering term. But they may judge it unsafe, and no court is going to disagree with that given the 'reasonable person' test. 

Absolutely smashing. What a great response in such a short time! Thanks a lot.

AdrianC

I can't help wondering why you actively want to stay there.

Life would be a lot simpler if you simply gave notice, moved, and let your ex-landlord get on with sorting what sounds like quite an unpleasant place to live currently.

Deiseen

AdrianC said:

I can't help wondering why you actively want to stay there.

Life would be a lot simpler if you simply gave notice, moved, and let your ex-landlord get on with sorting what sounds like quite an unpleasant place to live currently.

I agree but there are a number of reasons why we want to stay.
However, the negatives are now slowly starting to outweigh any positives....

Deiseen

Can anyone comment on my entitlement towards a rent reduction of any kind?

I have a feeling that the landlord doesn't care too much as if we did leave due to the issue, then their insurance company will just cover the loss of earnings.

FreeBear

Deiseen said: then their insurance company will just cover the loss of earnings.

Doubt it. The insurance company will only cover the cost of fixing the defects. Any consequential loss of rent would be for him to pay along with the council tax on the empty property.

greatcrested

FreeBear said:

Deiseen said: then their insurance company will just cover the loss of earnings.

Doubt it. The insurance company will only cover the cost of fixing the defects. Any consequential loss of rent would be for him to pay along with the council tax on the empty property.

Depends on the policy. Many LLs insurance policies include cost of alternative accomodation for the tenant and/or loss of rental income where an insured risk is involved.

Can anyone comment on my entitlement towards a rent reduction of any kind?

A decent LL would consider a reduced rent where there's significant inconvenience during repairs etc.. If the LL is unwilling to o this, entitlement is unlikely, though a court might accept a claim for compensation either for actual financial costs incurred (eg food delivery if kitchen unusable) or more general loss of facilities - but going to court over this would be a high risk strategy.