Endowment Incompetence

Lewie

Hi all.
I have an endowment from 23 years ago and have had hassle getting info on it.

The only time I get an update is a yearly statement in January.

I was planning to cash it in this year if it was of higher value than last year

The statement didn't arrive.

I called and asked why.

I got a very incompetent person that told me it was due to a new system etc.
I asked for the current value.
It actually took her quite a while to tell me as she ummed and arred saying, and the amount is....... it's now worth.........
She sounded like Diane Abbott trying to guess costings.
I asked her if she wanted me to play some dramatic music as it felt like I was on a game show!

Eventually I was told the amount and the policy had lost around £3,000.00 since the January statement.

I asked to be sent a statement from January.
She said she would sort it.

2 minutes later I had a call back from the same female (I had to go through the same securioty rigmarole as before)  telling me she had made a mistake and couldn't send me a statement, she would have to put me through to a different department.

This time a male spoke to me and I explained what I needed.
He seemed just as incompetent as the female and after two minutes I was cut off.

I'm assuming he didn't know what he was doing either and took the easy option.

I gave up on the phone route.
I e-mailed customer services and explained what had happened.
To my surprise, what I thought to be a genuine error turned out to be anything but.
It was admitted that due to teething problems with the new system they had decided to cancel all statements, without telling customers!!
I also asked why, in these modern times, I couldn’t access my policy online so I could monitor and manage it.
The excuse was that it wasn’t designed to be accessed online at the time.
Well, neither was my bank account, utility accounts or any other accounts 23 years ago, but they are now.
I was told there were other ways to contact them, phone, e-mail, letter.
I’d tried the phone, useless service, I had now tried e-mail, I finally got my January statement through the post at the end of June after several chase up e-mails, and as for post, that is ridiculous.
Send a request for value, wait for it to get there, wait for their reply to arrive back and I still wouldn’t know the current value of the policy.
Oh, and by the way, during Covid I rang for a valuation and spoke to a representative working from home.
Guess how they were accessing my account!

Has anyone heard of such nonsense?

Do you think they are in breach of contract by failing to send the statement as they had every other January for 22 years?

Ta

[Deleted User]

Lewie said:

Do you think they are in breach of contract by failing to send the statement as they had every other January for 22 years?

No. Everything seems ok, given the circumstances.

Thrugelmir

Lewie said:

Do you think they are in breach of contract by failing to send the statement as they had every other January for 22 years?

How much compensation are you expecting?

SpiderLegs

You seem a little hung up on the gender of the people you’ve spoken to, almost as though you are excusing the first person as they were a woman but in utter disbelief that a man could also be as rubbish.

i have to ask why, in these modern times, you appear to have such an outdated view.

Old_Lifer

I've had lots of endowments and  there was only one occasion  when an annual statement arrived  much later than usual.    It didn't bother  me much at the time,  as markets  hadn't moved much in the previous  year and the following few months   and as it was a conventional policy I was not expecting any great change in bonus rates .   Had it been unit-linked I could  easily have worked out an estimate  of the  current value by  using the total units on the last annual statement,  adding  a further  year of unit purchases  and   multiplying the result by the current unit price.    The statement which should have arrived in Spring  eventually arrived in November.  I never did bother to ask why.

The will be nothing in the policy which will say when the annual statement will be issued.

dunstonh

I also asked why, in these modern times, I couldn’t access my policy online so I could monitor and manage it.

Because you dont have a modern policy.  You have what is effectively a black and white TV and you are asking for ultra HD.

It costs billions of pounds to upgrade legacy systems and the insurers have to decide whether it is worth it or not.  There are only a small number of endowments running. So, spending vast sums is not commercially viable.  At best, the consolidators try to move them to a better option if they have alternative software available that can be utilised.

The excuse was that it wasn’t designed to be accessed online at the time.

It is not an excuse.  It is a genuine reason.

Well, neither was my bank account, utility accounts or any other accounts 23 years ago, but they are now.

Not a sound comparison.  You can still buy bank accounts today and utilities.  You cannot buy the endowment policy.

Do you think they are in breach of contract by failing to send the statement as they had every other January for 22 years?

No.

dimbo61

Never mind 
Has the value of your endowment gone down by £3,000 in one year or not ?
With the current Covid19 Pandemic alot of people are working from home.
Lots of people have lost their jobs and many more will go in the next few months.

Lewie

My apologies for not replying, didn't get notifications.

Deleted_User said:

No. Everything seems ok, given the circumstances.

Thanks, nice and starightforward.

Thrugelmir said:

How much compensation are you expecting?

Never mentioned any, it was just a question as there are a catalogue (not all mentioned here) of errors.

SpiderLegs said:

You seem a little hung up on the gender of the people you’ve spoken to, almost as though you are excusing the first person as they were a woman but in utter disbelief that a man could also be as rubbish.

i have to ask why, in these modern times, you appear to have such an outdated view.

Not me that's 'hung up', you clearly have issues.

Gender was irrelevent, just setting the scene..

If you could be bothered to actually read what was written 'He seemed just as incompetent as the female', you will realise just how ridiculous your statement is.

Are you the forum troll? Why reply if you can't help, that is what these forums are for aren't they?

Old_Lifer said:

The will be nothing in the policy which will say when the annual statement will be issued.

Thank you.

dunstonh said:

Not a sound comparison.  You can still buy bank accounts today and utilities.  You cannot buy the endowment policy.

You can't buy the type of bank accounts that were available 23 years ago either.

They didn't have a problem setting up their satff to access accounts from home and, as you say, there are only a few of these accounts left. I'm no IT expert but those that are could make each individual account accesible online with little efforrt.

dimbo61 said:

Never mind 
Has the value of your endowment gone down by £3,000 in one year or not ?
With the current Covid19 Pandemic alot of people are working from home.
Lots of people have lost their jobs and many more will go in the next few months.

Not, it went down £3,000 in as many months.

Not sure what the rest of your post is on about?

It's difficult to get across just how incompetent this company (Scottish Widows) have been.

I'm pretty sure these accounts are of little interest to them and they just go through the motions, if they can be bothered.

Ah well, I'll keep using the phone, hold, answer questions, get a valuation method.

Also, I'm allowed to change where my money is invested too but that would be a nightmare on the phone.

When I asked the first person I spoke to where the money was invested she hadn't got a clue so I don't think that would be viable.

It would only be practical online.

dunstonh

You can't buy the type of bank accounts that were available 23 years ago either.

Yes you can.  My bank account is from 1988 and you can buy it today.

They didn't have a problem setting up their satff to access accounts from home and, as you say, there are only a few of these accounts left. I'm no IT expert but those that are could make each individual account accesible online with little efforrt.

As you say, you are no IT expert.   You clearly do not understand hard coded systems and the costs involved.  It is a subject that is well documented in financial media and those who experience such things.

Old_Lifer

If you take a look at your latest statement which you finally received in June it should  tell you  the fund in which the policy is invested.    At the moment we do not have this information.

As you have a switch option,  although the policy could be unitised with-profits,  most such policies will be unit-linked and the majority of those would be linked to a managed fund.    In that event, all you need to do to establish the current value of the policy is take the current total units  (at 31st December ?)  shown on the latest statement,  add on a further  few months of unit purchases based on the total units purchased last year and multiply the new total by the current bid price of units in the managed fund.      Of course you will not know precisely  the number of units purchased since the last statement date and the cost of the life cover may have increased slightly   but working it out yourself  should give you a fairly good idea of the current value.

We do not know the size of your policy.    A fall in  value  of £3000   may  be a modest drop with a large policy   but  would be more of a concern  if the policy  is small.

Lewie

dunstonh said:

You can't buy the type of bank accounts that were available 23 years ago either.

Yes you can.  My bank account is from 1988 and you can buy it today.

Really?

I think you will find in name only. Internet banking wasn't introduced until the late 90's.

Bit like someone thinking a piece of 'restored' 18th century furniture is a genuine piece of 18th century furniture.

Lots of additions made.

dunstonh said:

As you say, you are no IT expert.   You clearly do not understand hard coded systems and the costs involved.  It is a subject that is well documented in financial media and those who experience such things.

The thing that started all of this was that they had changed the policies to a new system, see op.

A perfect opportunity to incorporate online access.

Old_Lifer said:

If you take a look at your latest statement which you finally received in June it should  tell you  the fund in which the policy is invested.    At the moment we do not have this information.

Oh Old Lifer, if only you could see what they sent me.

Originally they sent me a statement of premiums without the policy value, the very thing I'd asked for!

That was sent 29th April.

So I had to chase them again for a statement including the value.

After many e-mails and promises and apologies I finally got the value in writing 1st June (meant end of May in op but hey)

All it has on the statement of premiums is

Type of Plan; Unit Linked

Policyholders names

Premium history period; 1st January 2019 to 1st January 2020

Total paid

And the dates and amounts paid

The value letter has just the value.

No mention of units or any other information.