How to negotiate after survey

leftism

Hi everyone, 

We've just had out survey back and there are a few things that look like they would be unexpected (and costly?) problems. So just wondered how you go about negotiating any money off the purchase price to cover these things. From what I've read on here over the years, that seems to be the done thing. The problems are: 

- The front need repointing
- Missing verge mortar on the roof
- High levels of damp in lower walls, probably rising damp. (I'm going to get a specialist to take a look at this because I know a lot of houses of this age- 1930s- will have some damp)
- It doesn't seem to give any details on the electrics. Just says there has probably been partial rewires over the years (Don't really know what to do about that one)

Thank you!

Jeepers_Creepers

How was the house 'presented' either in the particulars or verbally by the EA? As a place that might need a bit of updating? As a house in good order? When you looked 'round, what did the house say to you - "I've been maintained to a high standard!" or "Factor in a bit of updating..."

Did the asking price reflect its condition, and how did your accepted offer differ - if at all - to that asking price? 

It clearly ain't falling down, but repointing is a labour-intensive job that will cost a good few £undred, perhaps into the low £ks depending on where you are, and how large the frontage is. It's a bog-standard job, tho' - there's no mystery to it and it shouldn't carry an exorbitant cost. (But do find a recommended builder for this - you want it done properly, nice an' deep...).

Mortar fillet on roof? Next to now't cost if done by the same guy. Unless you need scaffolding and stuff like that. 

Damp - that's not so straight-forward as it's one of these things that you tend to get differing thoughts and reports on. See what the surveyor says, but also bear in mind that they are after a job...

Wiring - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. At least not until it's needed. Try and get a rough date for when the cables were last replaced, and that will be your guide. Then factor in a few £k for a full rewire sometime in the future. 

Armed with a ballpark, you have a chat with the EA. I doubt you can expect them to knock off all you ask, and they might not knock off even a penny - it all depends on whether other folk are interested in it, and - as I said before - whether the accepted price reflected these jobs. 

The conundrum for the seller is, whilst they may fully accept and be fully aware of these 'issues', they almost certainly wouldn't need any attention for a good few years. Ie, just because the house is changing hands, doesn't make these repairs 'essential'. Yes, the pointing might be a bit ropey, but I bet it'll still be 'acceptable' in 10 years time. Yes, it might not have been rewired in decades, but I bet it'll still be safe and working fine in a decade too. They, therefore, may be wondering why they are expected to pay to put right stuff that they have happily lived with all their time at the property - and would have no intention of sorting out for themselves for many years to come if they were to stay. 

If you can give us an idea of the asking price, the accepted price and how that house compares with others in the area, that might help some to give you a better guide as to whether you have a fair chance of getting some off. A link to the property is also always good :-)

leftism

@Jeepers_Creepers what an incredibly informative (and reassuring!) post. Thanks so much. 
The house was on for 290 and we got it for 280, which is a good deal for the area. 
After a bit of searching, I was thinking of trying to get 2k off to cover the pointing and mortar. Then, we'll see what the damp people say. 
I don't want to do anything that is unfair to the seller though. And certainly don't want to use the survey to knock as much as I can off. 

Lokolo

What did the survey comes back as with the valuation?
If the survey valued it at £280k, then thats what its worth in that condition. Some sellers would then not move from that £280k.

Jeepers_Creepers

You can but ask. £2k seems reasonable, but let's see what the 'damp' survey comes back as. 

Did you meet the vendors? Or did you get any idea from the EA of their 'awareness' level - ie will they be surprised at being told there's damp there, and that the walls need repointing, or will they be in 'denial'? 

And - bottom line - is it in an area with a strong demand? If it's a good EA, they should be able to negotiate without ruffling feathers, and they should also have a good idea of the vendor's position - how eager they are for the sale to proceed with you (they might have their new home lined up, for example). 

See what other folk on here say first - lots of experience on this forum. 

[Deleted User]

leftism said:

I don't want to do anything that is unfair to the seller though. And certainly don't want to use the survey to knock as much as I can off. 

To be honest thats kinda how it came across in your original post. 2k really is a bit trivial, will probably make a difference of about a fiver to your monthly repayments if that. Got to ask yourself is it worth it. 

Jeepers has hit the nail on the head. It all depends on how the house was presented as a purchase. If it was stated that it could do with some modernisation and was valued with that in mind, then you should expect things to come up in the survey. 

On this assumption if I were your vendor i'd be a bit annoyed that you're trying to negotiate even more money off after already getting the house for 10k less than it was listed at. 

Davesnave

Did you see evidence of damp? Damp is easy to spot, so if you didn't see it when carefully inspecting the house consider the following:

If there was no damp visible, your surveyor 'found' it by using a simple moisture meter obtainable for about £10 and usually used to measure the dryness of logs. Fine, but if this damp is not presenting as a visible problem is it a real issue? It could even be lifestyle created. If it was the result of a breach of the DPC or dodgy rainwater goods, the surveyor should have seen that.

Your specialist damp survey company will almost certainly  find damp because it's in their interests to find it, then use some possibly dubious methods to rectify it. The only way to be really sure if there's a concern with invisible damp is to use a specialist timber and damp surveyor who doesn't have a vested interest, but they are often as rare as chicken's teeth.

leftism

Deleted_User said:

leftism said:

I don't want to do anything that is unfair to the seller though. And certainly don't want to use the survey to knock as much as I can off. 

To be honest thats kinda how it came across in your original post. 2k really is a bit trivial, will probably make a difference of about a fiver to your monthly repayments if that. Got to ask yourself is it worth it. 

Jeepers has hit the nail on the head. It all depends on how the house was presented as a purchase. If it was stated that it could do with some modernisation and was valued with that in mind, then you should expect things to come up in the survey. 

On this assumption if I were your vendor i'd be a bit annoyed that you're trying to negotiate even more money off after already getting the house for 10k less than it was listed at. 

Fair point! I didn't mean to come across that way at all. I just got the impression that the done thing is- you get the survey back, work out the price of any hidden costs then knock a bit off to help you cover them. 
Any money we save is cash above the mortgage, so it's a bit less trivial (2k off the price, would be 2k in my pocket to immediately sort the problems). But I know what you mean, in the big picture, it's a small amount. 

leftism

Jeepers_Creepers said:

You can but ask. £2k seems reasonable, but let's see what the 'damp' survey comes back as. 

Did you meet the vendors? Or did you get any idea from the EA of their 'awareness' level - ie will they be surprised at being told there's damp there, and that the walls need repointing, or will they be in 'denial'? 

And - bottom line - is it in an area with a strong demand? If it's a good EA, they should be able to negotiate without ruffling feathers, and they should also have a good idea of the vendor's position - how eager they are for the sale to proceed with you (they might have their new home lined up, for example). 

See what other folk on here say first - lots of experience on this forum. 

Yes, met the vendors. They were lovely! I think they'd act fairly if we had an issue, so that's why I don't want to take the mick. 

It is an area in quite high demand, but the house had been on for a few months. There was another bidder. I think we outbid them by 5k. 

Scotbot

The survey won't cover electrics. You can get an electrician to do an inspection, it will cost you about £100. If you need to rewire it will be 3 to 4k for a 3 bed house depending where in the country you are. If the house has had rewiring done the vendor has to declare it and  it should come with a certificate unless it was a lomg time ago. Ask the vendor what has been done since they are helpful

Mutton_Geoff

Scotbot said:

The survey won't cover electrics. You can get an electrician to do an inspection, it will cost you about £100. If you need to rewire it will be 3 to 4k for a 3 bed house depending where in the country you are. If the house has had rewiring done the vendor has to declare it and  it should come with a certificate unless it was a lomg time ago. Ask the vendor what has been done since they are helpful

To be honest, surveys don't cover most things and are full of get out clauses. A quick look at the consumer unit (fusebox) will tell a lot. And look up the postcode on the local council building control website, any major electrical work is notifiable to BC so you'll see the report there without waiting for messages to be passed from agent to vendor etc.

Years ago, most offers were "subject to survey", I'd have no problem using a survey as a negotiating tool. I also wouldn't trust 90% of the "damp surveyors" to report accurately what the problem was, a general builder is more useful in this respect.