Child’s PIP pushing me over threshold

RobinHill

poppy12345: I know someone with a similar issue ... She is the appointee for her two disabled adult children's bank / savings accounts. However she states that DWP include this in with her own savings total for benefit calculation purposes. They are adults and should be entitled to their own status but because they are not able to manage their own financial affairs the parent is in someway named on the account. However the DWP then attribute this money to the parent? Is this correct / how it works?

poppy12345

RobinHill said:

poppy12345: I know someone with a similar issue ... She is the appointee for her two disabled adult children's bank / savings accounts. However she states that DWP include this in with her own savings total for benefit calculation purposes. They are adults and should be entitled to their own status but because they are not able to manage their own financial affairs the parent is in someway named on the account. However the DWP then attribute this money to the parent? Is this correct / how it works?

There's no such thing as being an "appointee" for a bank account, this is for DWP purposes only. If they are named on the bank accounts then yes 50% of the savings belong to them.

I've not gone down this route for my daughter for this very reason. She has her own bank account, which i help her manage through the app. If there's problems i take her to the bank and am able to speak on her behalf because she's stood right next to me, i've never had any problems.

RobinHill

Her children have severe learning difficulties and are not in any way able to manage their own finances so she is named on the account in order to do so on their behalf. I know another friend whose now adult child received a significant sum due to hospital negligence at birth. I understand that a solicitor is the trustee of the the account and they receive "instruction" from the parent(s).
This way it has no impact on the parent, even though they still in effect have "control" on how the money is spent.

tacpot12

RobinHill said:

poppy12345: I know someone with a similar issue ... She is the appointee for her two disabled adult children's bank / savings accounts. However she states that DWP include this in with her own savings total for benefit calculation purposes. They are adults and should be entitled to their own status but because they are not able to manage their own financial affairs the parent is in someway named on the account. However the DWP then attribute this money to the parent? Is this correct / how it works?

I don't have poppy12345's expertise, but I don't think this is correct or how it is supposed to work. 
When someone has Power of Attorney (PoA), their name might be on the account as being able to operate it, but the money is not theirs. It belongs to the donor of the PoA. I would say that if the DWP are deciding that the money belongs to the parent, then the parent needs expert advice and possibly support to challenge this. 

tomtom256

It's called something along the lines of beneficial interest.

If the money was in an account in the claimants names, then it would be more straight cut. However as the money goes into the parents account, you would have to show it wasn't being used by the parent as part of their normal monthly spending and was only being used for the adult childrens needs.

Covid etc has no bearing on this, as the rules on capital/savings have always pretty much been the same.

Going forward, it would be best to setup individual accounts for each adult child, with POA access only, so that you can prove beneficial interest lays with the adult children.

Lanzarote1938

tacpot12 said:

RobinHill said:

poppy12345: I know someone with a similar issue ... She is the appointee for her two disabled adult children's bank / savings accounts. However she states that DWP include this in with her own savings total for benefit calculation purposes. They are adults and should be entitled to their own status but because they are not able to manage their own financial affairs the parent is in someway named on the account. However the DWP then attribute this money to the parent? Is this correct / how it works?

I don't have poppy12345's expertise, but I don't think this is correct or how it is supposed to work. 
When someone has Power of Attorney (PoA), their name might be on the account as being able to operate it, but the money is not theirs. It belongs to the donor of the PoA. I would say that if the DWP are deciding that the money belongs to the parent, then the parent needs expert advice and possibly support to challenge this. 

If the money is all in one account how would the DWP go about deciding which amount belongs to who?

Mehappy75

poppy12345 said:

I don't understand why they don't have their own bank acount. I understand they have disabilities and your wife is their appointee but they should still have their own bank account for the money to be transferred to. I know getting to the bank has been difficult due to Covid19 but what about the time before the lockdown was put into place.

My daughter claims PIP and i'm her appointee, her money is paid to me but then i transfer it to her so it doesn't remain in my bank account and count towards my savings.

I don't know how they will know who's money is who's if it's all in 1 bank account.

It was seen as an unnecessary hassle, as the banks said we’d have to be named on the account anyway. That said, I do understand it isn’t straight forward to work out who’s money is who’s. 

I’m speaking with the boys social worker either tomorrow or Tuesday to see how best to move forward. I’m thinking we just go ahead and open accounts for 2 of the boys and work out what belongs to them and transfer it. Our other son is more able but chose some time ago with a DWP representative in our home for his Mum to deal with some of his financies as he would spend it all at once it even give it away. So we kept his PIP in our account and any other payments he has into his.

poppy12345

Lanzarote1938 said:

tacpot12 said:

RobinHill said:

poppy12345: I know someone with a similar issue ... She is the appointee for her two disabled adult children's bank / savings accounts. However she states that DWP include this in with her own savings total for benefit calculation purposes. They are adults and should be entitled to their own status but because they are not able to manage their own financial affairs the parent is in someway named on the account. However the DWP then attribute this money to the parent? Is this correct / how it works?

I don't have poppy12345's expertise, but I don't think this is correct or how it is supposed to work. 
When someone has Power of Attorney (PoA), their name might be on the account as being able to operate it, but the money is not theirs. It belongs to the donor of the PoA. I would say that if the DWP are deciding that the money belongs to the parent, then the parent needs expert advice and possibly support to challenge this. 

If the money is all in one account how would the DWP go about deciding which amount belongs to who?

With great difficulty if the account is in the parents names. See Tomtom's reply above.

poppy12345

Mehappy75 said:

poppy12345 said:

I don't understand why they don't have their own bank acount. I understand they have disabilities and your wife is their appointee but they should still have their own bank account for the money to be transferred to. I know getting to the bank has been difficult due to Covid19 but what about the time before the lockdown was put into place.

My daughter claims PIP and i'm her appointee, her money is paid to me but then i transfer it to her so it doesn't remain in my bank account and count towards my savings.

I don't know how they will know who's money is who's if it's all in 1 bank account.

I’m thinking we just go ahead and open accounts for 2 of the boys and work out what belongs to them and transfer it.

That's not the answer here because DWP could still decide it belongs to you. You can't just transfer money across and expect them to say "oh that's fine" it's not that simple and doesn't work like that.

pmlindyloo

I believe the correct thing to do is open separate bank accounts for each of your children in your wife's name if she is the appointee for each child.
The PIP (and any other benefits/income each child receives) should then be put into each account. 
The appointee should keep careful records of each transaction (benefits should be obvious) including money removed and transferred to your bank account  for living expenses.
This way you can prove that the bank accounts are for your children (despite being in your wife's name) and the amounts will not be treated as part of your capital.  If any of the children receive a sum of money (ie not on a regular basis) then this would be counted as their capital and should be put into a separate savings account (again in your wife's name as their appointee)
It is all about keeping careful records and separating their money from yours.  This is very important because although PIP is not affected by capital other means tested benefits are.  I am presuming that your children receive other benefits or perhaps they are working?
I doubt that this can be done retrospectively although you could speak to the DWP and see what they say about this.  It MAY be possible since the children's benefits will be obvious from their reference numbers.