Wife being refused her furlough pay

Conko418

My wife is currently on holiday and when she gets back, she will have to isolate for 14 days. Her employer has text saying that she will not be getting her furlough pay for August, as she is unavailable to work during that 2 week period. I have been trying to find relevant guidance around this but have found it difficult to find the information that I need. As the government have been providing furlough from the start (and she was put straight on furlough) is her employer allowed to refuse this pay?

bradders1983

By the letter of the scheme your wife has to be available to work. If she has to stay at home for 14 days, she isnt available. Therefore her boss is absolutely right. Also remember anyone can be taken off furlough at any time.

In hindsight she should have kept quiet about going away.

rosiesposies

there is no entitlement, its completely at the employers discretion and now they have to contribute as of tomorrow the flexibility to use furlough for sickness and absence will be put back firmly in the hands of the employers. there is nothing you can do. 
in hindsight not telling her employer would've been the better way to go and if there was total confidence she would not have been called back to work 14 days following.
I would probably look at it like this

she didnt have to use annual leave to go on holiday, so why doesnt she now request it for the quarantine or meet halfway and do half unpaid and half AL. I appreciate she may have been abroad when the new restrictions were brought into place but the risks were still there and the government was clear they could be reintroduced at any time so anyone travelling abroad or even if the uk takes risks now. some weigh them up and go, some cancel. 

bradders1983

Good idea there. Use up annual leave for those two weeks.

gary83

bradders1983 said:

By the letter of the scheme your wife has to be available to work. If she has to stay at home for 14 days, she isnt available. Therefore her boss is absolutely right. Also remember anyone can be taken off furlough at any time.

In hindsight she should have kept quiet about going away.

She could have kept quiet & risked getting away with it, but then we could have seen a post on here where someone said they’d gone on holiday on furlough &  their employer rang whilst they were  abroad asking her to come back Into work. She’d then said “I’m in Spain I won’t be back in the UK until xxx and I won’t be back in work for at least another 2 weeks after that” 

We’d all probably think that person had been naive at best and pretty stupid at worse, keeping quiet and going Abroad on furlough is probably not the best policy when companies are already looking to make savings

Thrugelmir

Conko418 said:

As the government have been providing furlough from the start (and she was put straight on furlough) is her employer allowed to refuse this pay?

Yes. There's work to do and she's unavailable. That comes at a cost to the business. 

normanna

It's the risk she took in going away.  She will need to self isolate when she returns but she would do so without pay or she can use annual leave.

Grumpy_chap

gary83 said:

bradders1983 said:

By the letter of the scheme your wife has to be available to work. If she has to stay at home for 14 days, she isnt available. Therefore her boss is absolutely right. Also remember anyone can be taken off furlough at any time.

In hindsight she should have kept quiet about going away.

She could have kept quiet & risked getting away with it, but then we could have seen a post on here where someone said they’d gone on holiday on furlough &  their employer rang whilst they were  abroad asking her to come back Into work. She’d then said “I’m in Spain I won’t be back in the UK until xxx and I won’t be back in work for at least another 2 weeks after that” 

We’d all probably think that person had been naive at best and pretty stupid at worse, keeping quiet and going Abroad on furlough is probably not the best policy when companies are already looking to make savings

Indeed, we have seen several threads on here where people have said "I'm on furlough, can I go away and be on furlough on the beach in Spain" and the response has invariably been that while on furlough, you need to be available for work, what would you do if called in the morning to attend work in the afternoon?  These threads always concluded that the correct thing to do is to book annual leave from furlough for the period wished as holiday.

For the OP of this thread, I have to say the OP should take extra annual leave or unpaid leave for the 14 days not available to work, unless the OP can work from home.

There is a very fair compromise that one major employer I know has taken:

• If you were away when the quarantine rule was introduced, they will give you full pay for the 14 days, but you should make every effort to work from home during that time if possible. 
• If you traveled after the quarantine rule was introduced, you should take the quarantine period as annual leave or unpaid leave.

That seems vary fair and pragmatic approach for employers to take.

bradders1983

That is what my employer has stated in an email this week, actually.

epm-84

bradders1983 said:

By the letter of the scheme your wife has to be available to work. 

Incorrect. It's for those who can't work due to reasons relating to COVID-19 including but not limited to those who employers have no work for.  The GMB union were told by the government that workers who were living with someone who is on the shielding list can be furloughed.  They meant can remain at home during the shielding period and not risk picking up the virus at work and taking it home even though their employer had work for them.

epm-84

Grumpy_chap said:

gary83 said:

bradders1983 said:

By the letter of the scheme your wife has to be available to work. If she has to stay at home for 14 days, she isnt available. Therefore her boss is absolutely right. Also remember anyone can be taken off furlough at any time.

In hindsight she should have kept quiet about going away.

She could have kept quiet & risked getting away with it, but then we could have seen a post on here where someone said they’d gone on holiday on furlough &  their employer rang whilst they were  abroad asking her to come back Into work. She’d then said “I’m in Spain I won’t be back in the UK until xxx and I won’t be back in work for at least another 2 weeks after that” 

We’d all probably think that person had been naive at best and pretty stupid at worse, keeping quiet and going Abroad on furlough is probably not the best policy when companies are already looking to make savings

There is a very fair compromise that one major employer I know has taken:

• If you were away when the quarantine rule was introduced, they will give you full pay for the 14 days, but you should make every effort to work from home during that time if possible. 
• If you traveled after the quarantine rule was introduced, you should take the quarantine period as annual leave or unpaid leave.

That seems vary fair and pragmatic approach for employers to take.

I'd say the fairest approach would actually be similar to the approach travel insurers are taking.  If you booked your holiday before much of Europe was locked down then they should be lenient, while if you booked a last minute bargain knowing there's a risk of COVID-19 affecting your holiday then they don't need be so lenient.

In the second instance from your example there is a chance the quarantine requirement is lifted while you are away, which is great for the employer as they are in a no-lose situation but the employee faces a choice of losing money from cancelling their holiday when it can go ahead or loses money from not working.  If they choose the former then it might be they lose money for no reason if the quarantine requirement is then relaxed - which will just mean the employer has one very !!!!!! off employee.