EPC/Limp Mode/fuel contamination

daveyjp

The 1.5TSi has had problems since introduction, just like the 1.4TSi before it.  In particular severe hesitancy when pulling off which suggests a fuelling issue.

I would not believe anything a dealership told me about this engine without evidence they are right as the problems will have cost VAG millions in warranty claims, so I suspect they are now looking at ways to reduce claims.  If a relatively new car car can't stand unused for 4 weeks without potentially wrecking the injectors there is a problem.

VAG says the issue is now fixed, owners are not convinced.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/driving-1/2020-07/volkswagen-confirms-no-further-measures-planned-in-regards-to-15-tsi-issues/

ugly_em

MinuteNoodles said:

ugly_em said:

They've told me all four injectors are faulty which tells them it's a fuel contamination issue.

It does nothing of the sort, it's merely a convenient get out excuse they can foist on the less knowledgeable. Even if there was a fuel contamination issue it wouldn't take out all four injectors.

All four being taken out at the same time by contaminated fuel takes some believing.  If they believe in continuing down this line insist on them handing you over the injectors so you can take them to a fuel injection specialist to confirm they're faulty and what the cause was. I expect that you'll see much sucking of air through teeth and a rapid U turn from the service department and a mysteriously conveniently timed claim of goodwill from Audi by the dealership.

I will do. I'm going to ask for all parts that they say are faulty or need replacing. And I really hope you're right. Currently the cost is mounting up as they've told me I have to pay for the hire car that comes with Audi Assist because the fault is not covered under the warranty....so I've sent that back and now currently car-less.

ugly_em

daveyjp said:

The 1.5TSi has had problems since introduction, just like the 1.4TSi before it.  In particular severe hesitancy when pulling off which suggests a fuelling issue.

I would not believe anything a dealership told me about this engine without evidence they are right as the problems will have cost VAG millions in warranty claims, so I suspect they are now looking at ways to reduce claims.  If a relatively new car car can't stand unused for 4 weeks without potentially wrecking the injectors there is a problem.

VAG says the issue is now fixed, owners are not convinced.

Wow, thank you for this. It did kangaroo in first/second when I first got it. I thought it was me getting used to a petrol after having diesels for so long. They did a software update and when I asked what it was for, they were rather vague and mumbled something about updates being done occasionally.

ugly_em

ugly_em said:

MinuteNoodles said:

ugly_em said:

They've told me all four injectors are faulty which tells them it's a fuel contamination issue.

It does nothing of the sort, it's merely a convenient get out excuse they can foist on the less knowledgeable. Even if there was a fuel contamination issue it wouldn't take out all four injectors.

All four being taken out at the same time by contaminated fuel takes some believing.  If they believe in continuing down this line insist on them handing you over the injectors so you can take them to a fuel injection specialist to confirm they're faulty and what the cause was. I expect that you'll see much sucking of air through teeth and a rapid U turn from the service department and a mysteriously conveniently timed claim of goodwill from Audi by the dealership.

I will do. I'm going to ask for all parts that they say are faulty or need replacing. And I really hope you're right. Currently the cost is mounting up as they've told me I have to pay for the hire car that comes with Audi Assist because the fault is not covered under the warranty....so I've sent that back and now currently car-less.

They've now told me that at the moment it's not damaged the injectors but it's misfiring on all four. The tests showed a fail on fuel. The test is a pass/fail only. I've collected a sample to get tested myself. I've asked them to get a sample tested too and tell me what the contaminant is. They've said no point now as I'm testing and asked me to send them the report. When he passed the sample to me he said it looks a bit cloudy and have I lent the car to someone who might have put £10 of diesel in it ... like he's already decided the contaminant is diesel. How do I know he hasn't contaminated the sample to get the results he seems he seems to want?
He's now told me it could cost me up to £12k in repair bills. I just don't know where to go from here. Surely a new car can't fail so catastrophically on fuel contamination if I've been able to drive for near 300 miles on it with no problems?
I've asked him to save me all parts he replaces so that I can get independently tests and he's fine with that. 

MinuteNoodles

So it was four faulty injectors until you asked for them but now you're asking for them all of a sudden they're actually fine? We're off with the wriggling out of it already. The diesel thing is a ruse too, putting a tenner of diesel in won't cause damage other than possibly to the CAT, especially when there is already 5-10 litres of petrol still left. You'd know if you put diesel in a petrol car by the plumes of smoke coming out the exhaust which believe me you wouldn't not notice even in the rearview mirror. The fact you could drive it 300 miles with no issues tells you all you need to know.

If it's misfiring there can be lots of things that cause that, many of them nothing to do with the fuel system at all, things like faulty ignition coil packs, an ECU issue, sensor issues, valve timing issues caused by an issue with the cam timing chains which have been an issue with other VAG group engines, or a loss of compression. With the fuel system a low fuel pressure caused by a faulty pressure regulator or fuel pump can cause a misfire, as can the injectors not being "triggered" by the ECU.

Hell on my wife's Renault Trafic a new misfire and hesitancy was caused by the most obscure of things, a cheap aftermarket no name EGR valve (to do with exhaust emissions) a garage chose to fit instead of the proper genuine one they charged us for, the electronics in the EGR spiking the ECU so much that it didn't know what day of week it was. As it had just started doing it the minute it came back from the garage that was the first thing to look at. They also claim there's no problem with that although surprisingly when I disconnect it it runs perfectly.

ugly_em

MinuteNoodles said:

So it was four faulty injectors until you asked for them but now you're asking for them all of a sudden they're actually fine? We're off with the wriggling out of it already. The diesel thing is a ruse too, putting a tenner of diesel in won't cause damage other than possibly to the CAT, especially when there is already 5-10 litres of petrol still left. You'd know if you put diesel in a petrol car by the plumes of smoke coming out the exhaust which believe me you wouldn't not notice even in the rearview mirror. The fact you could drive it 300 miles with no issues tells you all you need to know.

If it's misfiring there can be lots of things that cause that, many of them nothing to do with the fuel system at all, things like faulty ignition coil packs, an ECU issue, sensor issues, valve timing issues caused by an issue with the cam timing chains which have been an issue with other VAG group engines, or a loss of compression. With the fuel system a low fuel pressure caused by a faulty pressure regulator or fuel pump can cause a misfire, as can the injectors not being "triggered" by the ECU.

Hell on my wife's Renault Trafic a new misfire and hesitancy was caused by the most obscure of things, a cheap aftermarket no name EGR valve (to do with exhaust emissions) a garage chose to fit instead of the proper genuine one they charged us for, the electronics in the EGR spiking the ECU so much that it didn't know what day of week it was. As it had just started doing it the minute it came back from the garage that was the first thing to look at. They also claim there's no problem with that although surprisingly when I disconnect it it runs perfectly.

Thanks again for your comments. It makes me so angry that dealerships treat the customer like this and get away with it. I hope you get things sorted to your satisfaction in the end.
I've got the AA diagnostic report which identified an electrical fault. About to take it down to Audi now. I fully anticipate his response to be dismissive because it doesn't fit the outcome he wants.

MinuteNoodles

An electrical fault seems much more plausible than the string of blind guess excuses the dealership have come out with so far.

ugly_em

MinuteNoodles said:

An electrical fault seems much more plausible than the string of blind guess excuses the dealership have come out with so far.

I watched a VW training video on YouTube for the VAS6774  that they used to test my fuel and couldn't see anything about testing petrol apart from the density measurements, so I got in touch with AudiUK via Twitter direct messages and they confirmed the VAS6774 only tests for petrol in diesel not diesel in petrol. As they were testing petrol, of course it would fail. I'm beyond astounded at the incompetence. I have sent the dealership the screenshots from my Twitter chat with AudiUK and asked them to get a full analysis of my fuel and to send me a video of the density test before they do any further work on my car. I've heard back to confirm they're waiting for a fuel testing kit to be delivered down to them from Oil Check Laboratory Services Ltd. They've also now suddenly said, "However whilst we wait for this we are currently investigating the possibility that the faults found could be due to a defect with the injectors. If this is the case then we can proceed with the work as a warrantable repair."
No mention or acknowledgement that the test they did was not fit for purpose. The cynic in me thinks they'll contaminate the sample in order to save face.

ugly_em

Update: I got the car back from Audi today, 7 weeks later. Turns out it was a valve timing issue. Apparently the main valve that feeds the camshaft has a sensor on the end but the sensor didn't pick up a fault. They believe this is because the outer part of the two part valve was getting stuck intermittently.

They thought it was the injectors initially but after replacing them, there was still a noise coming from the top of the engine. They also replaced the hydraulic tappets thinking this might solve the noise issue but it didn't. They also thought it might be a particulate filter issue at one point where it may have developed a blockage and damaged the turbo.

sweetsand

ugly_em said:

Update: I got the car back from Audi today, 7 weeks later. Turns out it was a valve timing issue. Apparently the main valve that feeds the camshaft has a sensor on the end but the sensor didn't pick up a fault. They believe this is because the outer part of the two part valve was getting stuck intermittently.

They thought it was the injectors initially but after replacing them, there was still a noise coming from the top of the engine. They also replaced the hydraulic tappets thinking this might solve the noise issue but it didn't. They also thought it might be a particulate filter issue at one point where it may have developed a blockage and damaged the turbo.

Hi OP
Appreciated the update.
ATB for the future and well done.