Ferlough bank holidays

ultimatetodd75

I work full time for a local blinds firm and was on furlough until beginning june. Over this period I was on the 80% wage. During this time there were 4 bank holidays. I understand that my holiday allowance is 28 days per year 20 days to be taken at any time and the 8 bank holidays. As I understand from reading the government website my employer should of either paid the full holiday pay rate on the bank holidays or allow us to use those 4 days later in the year effectively giving us 24 days when we returned to work. My employer seems to have no knowledge and says we have had the time off.  Where do I stand on this. I sent my boss the relevant article  via watsapp but he's still not looked at it.

jimkelly

The position as I understand it is that you may have the moral and legal high ground on this one, but you've also had to all intents and purposes 3 months of paid holiday with another 20 days yet to come.

You need to decide whether that extra 20% of pay for 4 days is worth kicking up a fuss for.  But, bear in mind who will be top of the list if they need to start making savings.  

ultimatetodd75

Ok here's the big issue. A number of staff had holidays from last year to use up by the and of may and had the last week of may booked in as holiday. As they  were on furlough and the 80% they have had those days carried over to this year rather than getting full holiday pay. So my big question  is how can this be right? We are all entitled to the legal minimum of 28days payed holiday each year. How can he give back holidays to those and ignore the fact that the 4 days bank holiday are part of our 28day entitlement. As for making cuts theres no worries there. Our industry is thriving post lockdown we actually need more staff to keep up with demand its like xmas x 100 the work we have on.

Jeremy535897

The rules on holiday pay are very complicated. The overarching rule that requires an employee to be no worse off on holiday than working derives from EU case law, and technically only applies to the 20 day EU statutory minimum, not the 8 days of bank holiday. There is also the question of how to calculate holiday pay if you are not a fixed rate employee, where somewhere between 52 and 104 past weeks are looked at to get an average rate.

Most employers just accept that they pay holiday pay at the 100% rate. Government guidance is here:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/holiday-entitlement-and-pay-during-coronavirus-covid-19

jimkelly

"We are all entitled to the legal minimum of 28days payed holiday each year."

With respect, you are actually entitled to a minimum 20 days paid holiday each year, plus 8 bank holidays.  It's the same, but different.

Unless you work in an industry (i.e. like emergency services) where bank holidays and weekends are just 'normal' working days, I think they've called this one correctly.  If you'd booked one of your 20 holiday entitlement days for one of those bank holidays (a strange thing to do, but bear with me), then you would have been entitled to that day back as you were furloughed.

The 8 bank holidays cannot be chosen by you - unless, as above, your line of work means they're a normal working day - they are instead chosen by the government.  So, you have actually already received those 4 bank holidays, as you were off on those days.  Whereas, the other staff didn't receive their annual entitlement (of up to 20 days) as they were furloughed.

On your rationale, one could ask why are you not also entitled to 3 months of weekends back as paid holiday - as when they occurred, you were on furlough.  

kaMelo

jimkelly said:

"We are all entitled to the legal minimum of 28days payed holiday each year."

With respect, you are actually entitled to a minimum 20 days paid holiday each year, plus 8 bank holidays.  It's the same, but different.

Unless you work in an industry (i.e. like emergency services) where bank holidays and weekends are just 'normal' working days, I think they've called this one correctly.  If you'd booked one of your 20 holiday entitlement days for one of those bank holidays (a strange thing to do, but bear with me), then you would have been entitled to that day back as you were furloughed.

The 8 bank holidays cannot be chosen by you - unless, as above, your line of work means they're a normal working day - they are instead chosen by the government.  So, you have actually already received those 4 bank holidays, as you were off on those days.  Whereas, the other staff didn't receive their annual entitlement (of up to 20 days) as they were furloughed.

On your rationale, one could ask why are you not also entitled to 3 months of weekends back as paid holiday - as when they occurred, you were on furlough.  

On the technical point, people are entitled to 5.6 weeks holiday per year. There is no requirement (or entitlement) for any of those days to be taken on a bank holiday no matter what line of work you are in. The Government has absolutely no say in when holidays are taken..
What actually matters is what is  written in a contract of employment. Some will state "X" days holiday plus bank holidays whereas others, like the OP. you are entitled to "X" number of days per year and no mention of bank holidays.

To the OP, as Jeremy alluded to, the relevant EU legislation is somewhat unclear regarding bank holiday pay however most employers just pay it at the normal rate, certainly if you have always been paid normally for bank holidays then it would follow that you continue to be.
It would appear therefore that you are due 20% pay x four days. Effectively 80% of one days pay.
Whether you are willing and ready to have that argument with your employer is something only you can answer. 

ultimatetodd75

So in a nutshell. I as a full time worker we are entitled to 5.6weeks of paid leave or 28days. My leave is set out as 8days to he taken when we shut for bank hols and 20 days to be taken throughout the year. As the shop closed for furlough  our employer had two options this is clearly outlined on the gov website, pay the full day rate on the bank holidays or defer the 4 days to be taken later through the year.  We only received the flat 80% throughout furlough and so far nothing mentioned about the  holidays  or the 20% pay they should of topped up with on those days apart from a brief conversation over a week ago when I sent him the info, hes still not opened the message. 

kaMelo

ultimatetodd75 said:

So in a nutshell. I as a full time worker we are entitled to 5.6weeks of paid leave or 28days. My leave is set out as 8days to he taken when we shut for bank hols and 20 days to be taken throughout the year. As the shop closed for furlough  our employer had two options this is clearly outlined on the gov website, pay the full day rate on the bank holidays or defer the 4 days to be taken later through the year.  We only received the flat 80% throughout furlough and so far nothing mentioned about the  holidays  or the 20% pay they should of topped up with on those days apart from a brief conversation over a week ago when I sent him the info, hes still not opened the message. 

You understand the situation correctly, clearly your employer either doesn't understand it or (more likely) they do understand perfectly well but don't want to go there so play deaf and dumb hoping you'll go away.
Only you can decide whether or not to pursue the matter and how hard to pursue it if you do. 

epm-84

jimkelly said:

you've also had to all intents and purposes 3 months of paid holiday

That is incorrect.  If you've been furloughed by the employer and it relates to them not having work for you to do (opposed to relating to you shielding or otherwise) then you are on standby for the days you are on furlough and you cannot go away on holiday unless you book some of your furlough days as holiday.

It's a bit like being an on-call firefighter and being paid a lower rate for the hours you're not actually doing anything compared to the hours you are working.

jimkelly

Which is why I said "to all intents and purposes".