Help Concerning War Pension for BR

tigerfeet2006

Hi RF,

Houses are tricky so I will leave this to the experts to answer fully but I feel sure that if you have little or no equity and you will still be able to aford the mortgage payments, insurance etc. while bankrupt the OR may offer you to buy the BI for £1 plus fees, which off the top of my head I think are £240ish. I am sure someone will be along soon to answer you more fully soon.

Richard_S

rfdebt wrote: »

Hi all,

My mortgage is with C&G, but was informed a few months ago that Lloyds TSB would be the actual lender with effect from October 1st.

As I said previously, I have written to all of my unsecured creditors offering a token £1 per month payment temporarily, telling them that all creditors are being offered the same token payment and only priority bills such as the mortgage and utility bills will be paid ( in addition to housekeeping expenses such as food).

My worry is my biggest creditor is Lloyds TSB – 2 x personal loans totalling around £35,000. What concerns me is will they make me sell the house (little or no equity) due to them now being the official mortgage lender and us owing them so much money?

Both my wife and I are planning to go BR in January, although none of our creditors know of our intentions as yet.

Moreover, could we lose the house anyway by going BR (even making mortgage payments) due to being insolvent? I read somewhere that some lenders consider this a breach of their terms and conditions. I have looked through C&G’s T&C and couldn’t see anything relating to this.

Has anyone gone through this scenario that could give us an insight to likely procedures?

Any input would be gratefully received.

Hi Rf,

I'm assuming the two loans with Lloyds TSB are unsecured, and if they are they're just unsecured creditors with no power to force you to sell the house. The only way they may be able to get around this is if the mortgage document refers to the house being security for the mortgage, and any other borrowing within their group of companies. Ascertaining that would either mean some close scrutiny of the mortgage T&C's or consulting a solicitor.

Even if the loans are secured, it's highly unlikely that they would force a sale, because to do so would incur further charges with no significant gain for them when a buyer is eventually found. The only downside with that, is they will just play a waiting game until the equity in the house makes it worth them realising their security.

I can only speak for certain about our lender and they have no problem with us being bankrupt; in fact I suspect we could be violent drug smugglers and they'd still be happy to take our cash. I have heard of such T&C's but even if they're in the mortgage document, it doesn't mean they'll enforce them.

My only concern for you is that the O.R may take the view that you could find alternative suitable rented accommodation for less than your mortgage payments. You won't be able to get an answer to that until you declare bankruptcy, and that sort of uncertainty is always difficult to come to terms with. Worst case scenario though; if you have to move out they will give you plenty of time to find a suitable property, and given how hard it is to find rented property when you're bankrupt, you could well be disharged before that happened.

You seem to have solved the problem with your limited company but a simpler solution would be to have it struck off. Providing the company has no creditors or bank borrowing, you complete a form (got the details somewhere) and pay a fee of £12 (I think) and that's it done.

Anything else you'd like to know please post again. It is a struggle, and it is sometimes difficult to stay motivated, but things will improve; they may get worse first, but in the long run, you'll find yourselves back in control of your lives and grateful that you made the hard decisions when you did.

Anything I post on this site is either my own experience or something I know to be a fact. If I'm making assumptions or guessing I'll say so. What I'm not though is an expert; the only training I've had is the painful experiences of the last couple of years. On a matter relating to our complicated little bankruptcy I referred to the services of a solicitor and an I.P. when I wasn't certain about something.

Best regards

Richard

rfdebt

Hi tigerfeet2006 and Richard_S

Thanks for your speedy replies!

Tigerfeet2006 – For once, yes, we are hoping the equity in the house is low to enable us to keep the house by buying the BI! Never thought I’d see myself wishing for negative equity before! We have worked out a budget that we will need to cover all household expenses including the mortgage and we are looking for employment that will at least bring in the amount that we would need to live.

Richard_S – Yes, sorry should have said that the Lloyds TSB loans are unsecured as are the rest of the debts. Renting a house can be obtained for less than our mortgage repayments, but am worried about the potential problems that will accompany this option, credit checks, guarantor etc. That’s aside from the stress involved in moving again, not been here quite a year yet!

As we are both going BR and have no dependant children living with us, (our 26yr old son lives with us - for now anyway), won’t the time scale allowing us time to find somewhere else to live be minimal? I’ve read that if there is a non BR spouse or children are involved they could allow up to 12 months to find alternative accommodation.

With regards our limited company, no, we haven’t actually done anything yet, still have to finish off the paperwork to deregister for VAT first before we can do anything (I think). Last thing we need is the HMRC breathing down our necks! We have to go through all our invoices to see if we will end up with a bill from HMRC on our vat claimed items! Have started checking, but need to finish it off (got de-motivated). We could look at the option of having it struck off as there’s no creditors or borrowing on the business. It would be simpler that way wouldn’t it? I need to pull my finger out and get on with it!

We are wondering if the letters sent out to our creditors have been ignored and they are waiting for us to default, should be any tick of the clock now! One of our creditors is Smile (Co-Op), today we have received a letter asking why we have cancelled the direct debit and advising us of other options of making payment. It’s like as if they have not received our letter offering a token payment. Perhaps we should write again using recorded delivery, should have done that last week!

Anyway, time will tell, thanks so much for all your help. This forum has been invaluable to us and makes us feel that we are not alone; it helps us so much to get the support that we have been shown. Shame about those who post negative comments, mocking people in our position does nothing to help, only to make us feel worse about our situation. I hope the likes of them don't get this board closed.

No doubt I’ll be posting again soon, thanks again.

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to you all.

Richard_S

rfdebt wrote: »

Renting a house can be obtained for less than our mortgage repayments, but am worried about the potential problems that will accompany this option, credit checks, guarantor etc. That’s aside from the stress involved in moving again, not been here quite a year yet! It may well not come to that Rf; you just need to bear it in mind as a worst case scenario. We had to move twice during our bankruptcy, and I never want to see another Luton Van.

As we are both going BR and have no dependant children living with us, (our 26yr old son lives with us - for now anyway),How long has your son lived with you, and has he made any material contribution to the household expenditure; like paying for some of the work you've had done? Adult children can be proved to have a B.I in their parents' property; not easy but possible. won’t the time scale allowing us time to find somewhere else to live be minimal? I’ve read that if there is a non BR spouse or children are involved they could allow up to 12 months to find alternative accommodation.You'll be given plenty of time if it comes to that, so nothing to worry about.

With regards our limited company, no, we haven’t actually done anything yet, still have to finish off the paperwork to deregister for VAT first before we can do anything (I think). Last thing we need is the HMRC breathing down our necks! We have to go through all our invoices to see if we will end up with a bill from HMRC on our vat claimed items! Have started checking, but need to finish it off (got de-motivated). We could look at the option of having it struck off as there’s no creditors or borrowing on the business. It would be simpler that way wouldn’t it? It is simple providing there are no creditors.I need to pull my finger out and get on with it!

We are wondering if the letters sent out to our creditors have been ignored and they are waiting for us to default, should be any tick of the clock now! One of our creditors is Smile (Co-Op), today we have received a letter asking why we have cancelled the direct debit and advising us of other options of making payment. It’s like as if they have not received our letter offering a token payment. Perhaps we should write again using recorded delivery, should have done that last week!They don't always respond that quickly to correspondence. I would just stop paying them; "actions speak louder than words," that'll give them a wake up call.:D

Anyway, time will tell, thanks so much for all your help. This forum has been invaluable to us and makes us feel that we are not alone; it helps us so much to get the support that we have been shown. Shame about those who post negative comments, mocking people in our position does nothing to help, only to make us feel worse about our situation. I hope the likes of them don't get this board closed.

No doubt I’ll be posting again soon, thanks again.

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to you all.

Hi Rf,

I don't think there's much chance of the Board being closed, but it does make it unpleasant for people who are just looking for advice and support; especially if it's the first time they've visited.

Regards

Richard

rfdebt

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your reply.

We can certainly hope that we can manage to keep our house, in the worst case scenario, our son in law who is in the RN has offered to be guarantor for us should we have to give up the house and go into rented accommodation.

Our son has lived with us on and off since he was 18, he did a stint in the RN but has been back with us for the past two years, moving with us from the south to up here in the north east. He’s joining the police here and starts his training next month; he will be contributing to the household expenses for his keep. However, we can’t rely on his contribution as eventually he wants to transfer back to the south, joining the police here is just a stepping stone! Whether that would make a difference to him either wanting to /or being able to apply for the BI in the house is another matter. I will discuss this possibility with him later, he’s just got back from Austria and having travelled overnight has gone to bed!

With regards getting my ltd company struck off, that can be done as there are no creditors/borrowing. Just have to get my act together and finish off the paperwork for the HMRC!

We have stopped paying our creditors, well, cancelled the direct debits anyway, so, one by one - as they become overdue they will no doubt get in contact!


Thanks again for your help, it is much appreciated!

fiveyearplan

We are wondering if the letters sent out to our creditors have been ignored and they are waiting for us to default, should be any tick of the clock now! One of our creditors is Smile (Co-Op), today we have received a letter asking why we have cancelled the direct debit and advising us of other options of making payment. It’s like as if they have not received our letter offering a token payment. Perhaps we should write again using recorded delivery, should have done that last week!

That is what happened in my experience. Creditors ignored my letter offering token payment (I even sent an I&E with the letter). Once they starting phoning and I told them I had written (I kept copies of all letters sent and date of posting) they delved into their computer and of course knew I had sent the letter. I can't tell you how many times I had to explain things! I haven't answered the phone before 9pm for a 2-3 months now!

rfdebt

Thanks for your message fiveyearplan.

We did request that our creditors only contact us concerning our “difficulties” by letter, but believe me, I am under no illusion that they will telephone! Still, we have unearthed an answering machine that we forgot we had, so may well plug that in!

Failing that, I or my wife will just plainly reiterate that they put everything in writing as initially requested and refuse to discuss anything over the phone with them. It will become our “mantra”, they’ll either get fed up with it or not! The debt charity we spoke to recommended telling our creditors that we will only correspond by letter.

Time will tell, that answering machine sounds more favourable by the minute! Can’t totally ignore the phone, as I said earlier, our son is starting a new job next month and needs to be contactable.

rfdebt

Hi all,

Well, I’ve received a reply from one of my creditors – Capital One.

This is what they had to say:

Thank you for your letter advising us of your current financial situation. I understand this must be a difficult time for you and we would like to explore an appropriate solution to your current debt problems as soon as possible.

From experience, we have found that speaking to our customers directly helps us to answer any queries and explore any possible debt solutions quickly. So we’d like you to call us on our free phone number (they then proceed to list various ways of making payment)

Please continue to make payments to your Capital One account until we are able to assess your eligibility for a reduced payment arrangement.

I will be responding to this letter in writing only, as I have a feeling that they will just try to pressurise me into paying more and make threats to take me to court etc over the telephone. There is no way I can make the payment in full as they want me to and that’s all there is to it. Reading between the lines of their letter, it’s like they’re saying we won’t accept a reduced payment unless you ring and speak to us.

Will taking this action make it worse for us? I really don’t want to ring them as I believe their “sweetness and light” attitude in their letter is merely a ploy and their “helpful” stance will change as soon as I speak to them.

tigerfeet2006

rfdebt wrote: »

Hi all,

Well, I’ve received a reply from one of my creditors – Capital One.

This is what they had to say:

Thank you for your letter advising us of your current financial situation. I understand this must be a difficult time for you and we would like to explore an appropriate solution to your current debt problems as soon as possible.

From experience, we have found that speaking to our customers directly helps us to answer any queries and explore any possible debt solutions quickly. So we’d like you to call us on our free phone number (they then proceed to list various ways of making payment)

Please continue to make payments to your Capital One account until we are able to assess your eligibility for a reduced payment arrangement.

I will be responding to this letter in writing only, as I have a feeling that they will just try to pressurise me into paying more and make threats to take me to court etc over the telephone. There is no way I can make the payment in full as they want me to and that’s all there is to it. Reading between the lines of their letter, it’s like they’re saying we won’t accept a reduced payment unless you ring and speak to us.

Will taking this action make it worse for us? I really don’t want to ring them as I believe their “sweetness and light” attitude in their letter is merely a ploy and their “helpful” stance will change as soon as I speak to them.

I think you have the measure of them RF. I'm glad they understand this must be a difficult time for you :rotfl: , I especially love this as well we would like to explore an appropriate solution to your current debt problems as soon as possible, I thought your letter had outlined an appropriate solution to them :rolleyes: As you said keep all correspondance in writing at least you willhave proof what was said.

rfdebt

Hi tigerfeet2006,
thanks for your reply, yes, I have no doubt the letter was portrayed in the "softly softly" manner to lull me into a false sense of security! I will reply in writing so as I have all correspondance as proof of keeping in contact. We had a letter from C&G (LLoyds TSB) regarding us stopping the mortgage payment DD today as well. We wrote at the beginning of the week to say we would be paying it into the bank with cash. No doubt our letter has yet to reach the appropriate department, with christmas coming up it won't be sorted until afterwards I suspect. Have a good christmas and thanks again.