Bank cancelled my cards by error, left me in lurch!

leviathan

Hi everyone,
First time posting, long time lurker.
Hoping I might get some advice from the nice people here as I think I've been rather let down by my bank.

Last week on Thursday I walked into a random branch of my bank and asked for a replacement card on one (secondary) of my bank accounts. I have two accounts with them which are virtually the same product but with different account numbers of course.

I was told that there were in fact two cards associated with that account and that the other would have to be cancelled first before I could be issued with a replacement. I said I had no knowledge of any other cards and certainly cancel them if that was the case. This was supposedly done.

Cut to Saturday morning, xmas shopping at hypermarket and waiting in the queue to pay. Take my card out for the other (primary) account which I'd not asked the bank to do anything to.
Doesn't work.
Try again. Doesn't work.
Starting to feel a bit of concern never mind embarassment over a £7 charge to my card which wont go through. Of course everyone is now interested in the exchange taking place at the front of the queue.
Take out the card for the other account (secondary), the one I had asked for a new card on. Doesn't work either. Penny drops, leave without the goods.

Try to find a branch of my bank which is open. Fairly hard to do on a Saturday around midday. Know there is one in town but have 2quid to my name, cannot use a cash machine (didn't try, suspected the machine would eat the card) and so cannot park the car anywhere to get to the branch. Go back to the house and call them.

Pretty livid, but listening to what they have to say. None of it is good news.
Cannot re-enable the cards once cancelled.
Cannot send new cards to anywhere but my home address. - Told this is the law!! Suggest work address but told it is illegal for them to do so.
Can send to a branch but need photo ID. - Chance of me getting my passport rather slim as it's a good 200miles from me and will be for a week or so.

Suggest that the random possibility of them sending a card in my name to a random branch, the branch phoning me to tell me it's there and then me coming to collect it should really be fine. Common sense would suggest that someone guessing this has happened is likely to be slim. In fact if there were such a person I'd like them to pick the lottery numbers for me.
Common sense not forth coming from other end of the phone line.
Told that a request will be logged with Customer care and they will phone me to discuss the situation within 24hrs, probably Monday :rolleyes:

However, told that all is not lost!!
I can go down to a cash machine so long as it's one of theirs, enter my pin number and I can get emergency cash from my account up to my daily amount of 500quid.
Suggest to other end of the telephone that I can't see this working since there is a good chance another one of their customers has the same 4 digit pin number as me. Other end of phone is certain this works. I
t's a "new feature".
I suggest that perhaps I'll need to enter my account number to? "Yes, that might be the case".
Trip down to cash machine having used internet on my mobile to locate the nearest one. Follow instructions to discover that in fact it's a 6 digit number and needs to be pre-arranged.
Now am definately livid. :mad:
Back to the house, back on the phone.


Told that yes, I can arrange this feature, however it's limited to between 50-80quid.
Which, 50 or 80?
Ah, it's at their discretion!!??!!
But I have to phone someone else to organise it. Would I also like to speak to customer care now? What happened to 24hrs waiting time?!?
I tell them not to bother and instead borrow a couple of hundred quid from a friend to tide me over and wait for customer care to call me on Monday.

Monday morning, phone the Financial Ombusman Service (FOB) to see where I stand. They say that yes it's certainly something they will look into if I've been unable to get a satisfactory result from my bank. Good information to know.

Get a call from Customer Care.
Sorry, very sorry, extremely sorry. One gets the impression that I'm expected to find apologies to be enough for the hassle I've been put through.
Told that I should expect replacement cards this week, perhaps Wednesday or Thursday. It takes 5-7 days to make new cards.
What about a rush job perhaps under the circumstances ? Nope, not going to happen.
Query about not delviering to my work address. Told it's not illegal but bank policy. Not willing to budge, or listen to what I have to say (I work for a security company, the building is covered with CCTV and integrity is paramount here). They can confirm who pays the wages into my account with them, but still that's not enough. Common sense injection seriously required in all departments.

Talk moves to compensation led by customer care. Mention to them that I will be requesting at the least the cost of my taking a day off work to replace the lost Saturday I've had running around trying to gain access to my cash so that I can do things which require it (not that I could use my card either of course, but..). Plus expenses.
Told that if I'm seeking that sort of amount that I will have to put it in writing giving a breakdown of the cost.
This is when you realise that you're going to be offered 50quid (with the proviso that it's a "full and final settlement") and expect to be happy about it.

After the call try to use my online banking service. Thanks to the indroduction of their new "security device" (which honestly is more hassle than security) I am unable to setup a new payment to send the 200quid I've borrowed back to my friend. Doesn't this just get better?
Effectively they've got my cash and there is nothing I can do about it.
I cannot take it out of a branch either as they'll ask me for photo ID, passport problem again.
Cannot pay any bills over the phone either.


Now, if you've read it all through I'd welcome suggestions of what to do next.
I have already told them that if I have to enter into correspondance at their request then I'll be charging them for my time to do that too.

Questions:

Should I charge for say my time taken or take a leaf from their book of charges. How much does a bank charge for writing a requested letter? Duplicated statement? Is there a considered reasonable amount?

Should I have to list my costs incurred or indeed break it down to the point at which I'm listing my hourly wage. Surely it's none of their business unless I was applying for a loan or mortgage?
Just give them a figure and tell them to pay it?

What is deemed reasonable compensation by the industry, or is this a case of what you can get the £$^%£$*( to give up ?


If I don't see satisfaction I fuly intend to go through FOB. That's a £400 case fee in the bank's direction and indications are already that they've screwed up and it's only reasonable for me to expect to be compensated for it fully. One would expect them to take note of the FOB charge and act accordingly before being investigated.

Does anyone have any experience of having dealt with FOB and could offer advice on the matter?
Currently we are waiting for the cards to be delievered to me before we talk about compensation so that all the facts, expenses, whatever are known.
I'll delay talking to FOB directly for now or writing a letter of complaint but I can see it looming in the not too distant future.

Thanks for reading.
Lev

missile

I have used FOB twice and both times been successful in claiming my losses but never any additional compensation.

You need to exhaust banks complaints procedure before FOB will consider your complaint.

dunstonh

Monday morning, phone the Financial Ombusman Service (FOB) to see where I stand. They say that yes it's certainly something they will look into if I've been unable to get a satisfactory result from my bank. Good information to know.

The FOS give that as a standard response to anyone enquiring. Its part of their script and you shouldnt read anything into that.

If I don't see satisfaction I fuly intend to go through FOB. That's a £400 case fee in the bank's direction and indications are already that they've screwed up and it's only reasonable for me to expect to be compensated for it fully. One would expect them to take note of the FOB charge and act accordingly before being investigated.

The "FOB" is actually the FOS.

Does anyone have any experience of having dealt with FOB and could offer advice on the matter?

The FOS accept that mistakes happen and as long as the cause of the mistake was not vindictive and the mistake was rectified accordingly they will usually agree with a small goodwill gesture.

What is deemed reasonable compensation by the industry, or is this a case of what you can get the £$^%£$*( to give up ?

The FOS will not award any compensation as only financial redress is possible. If the bank covers your costs that will be deemed acceptable with a small goodwill gesture on top. The goodwill gestures offered tend to be between £10 and £200 from banks/providers but the FOS will go upto £150 where hardship and extreme inconvenience have occured.

They would also consider if your response and costs were appropriate for error that was made. Taking time off work I doubt would be considered acceptable as there is no reason for it.

leviathan

dunstonh wrote: »

They would also consider if your response and costs were appropriate for error that was made. Taking time off work I doubt would be considered acceptable as there is no reason for it.

Dunston, this is not at all an attack on you but aimed squarely at what I've quoted.

In order to replace the day I've lost through no fault of my own I will have to take time off work. Or is it expected that I just chalk this down to "mistakes happen" and accept I've had a day which had been planned and interrrupted in fact wasted?

What are your day's off worth to you? because if that's the mindset these people are in then you might as well just give them up for nothing.

Whilst I can accept a mistake, but this is just sheer incompetence followed by an utter lack of effort to assist and an attitude that suggests it is a regular "mistake".


I've now discovered that I cannot move money to another dormant account at another bank because my online banking had been disabled due to the need to use a card with it, and also impending bills cannot be paid due to having no card facility. The suggestion given by my bank was to use my VISA card or get someone else to pay it for me.
They will cover expenses incurred due to credit card charges on presentation of supporting documentation. No mention of the hassle tho (I save my credit card purely for interent usage and avoid using it for anything else).

computerwoman

I have read your post and as far as I can see you have not named your bank...unless I have missed that one...I would close the account and go else where and see it as if this is how you work thing's out I don't want to be involved with it anymore...doesn't sound like a very caring bank to me...:D

duchy

Presumably as you mentioned parking-you drive. I've never heard of a bank that wouldn't accept a driving licence as ID.

olly300

leviathan wrote: »

In order to replace the day I've lost through no fault of my own I will have to take time off work. Or is it expected that I just chalk this down to "mistakes happen" and accept I've had a day which had been planned and interrrupted in fact wasted?

The things that strike me here are:
1. The bank made a mistake and it was not on purpose. They asked you why did you have 2 cards on the account and since you didn't know exactly what they were talking about they cancelled both of them to ensure your money wasn't at risk.

2. Your identification is 200 miles away. That's not the banks fault and unfortunately banks, delivery offices and shops that sell alcohol presume everyone has identification close to hand. Ao I suggest from now on you have some proper id with you if your are going away from home for even a few days.

3. No reasonable person will expect you to take a full day of work to deal with things and if you did take the bank to court a lawyer would argue that. This unfortunatley means if you live in a rural location, work in a rural location and/or travel a long way to work you are screwed.

leviathan wrote: »

What are your day's off worth to you? because if that's the mindset these people are in then you might as well just give them up for nothing.

When you get compensated for things you never get compensated on the exact time you spend dealing with the issue or the amount of hassle it caused you.

For example I had a recent issue with Nationwide and it took 3 hours to deal with it which involved me going to and from a branch and calling them up on the phone due to the lie the branch manager told me. They gave me £25 as a goodwill gesture when I complained to head office but in those 3 hours, which I took off work, I would have earned more than £25.

leviathan wrote: »

Whilst I can accept a mistake, but this is just sheer incompetence followed by an utter lack of effort to assist and an attitude that suggests it is a regular "mistake".

They probably cancel extra cards all the time and find in a lot of cases they may be shouldn't have cancelled the extra card.

leviathan wrote: »

I've now discovered that I cannot move money to another dormant account at another bank because my online banking had been disabled due to the need to use a card with it, and also impending bills cannot be paid due to having no card facility. The suggestion given by my bank was to use my VISA card or get someone else to pay it for me.
They will cover expenses incurred due to credit card charges on presentation of supporting documentation. No mention of the hassle tho (I save my credit card purely for interent usage and avoid using it for anything else).

Least you have a credit card. Imagine if you didn't.

It's worth complaining in writing to the complaints department of the bank sending your letter via recorded delivery with copies of supporting documentation for additional expenses. If you know the name of the person you dealt with in the branch put their name in the letter. Put "Formal Complaint" as the title of the letter. I find it a waste of time complaining in branches or phoning up the number they give you to complain as they fob you off.

BTW a similar thing happened to me 6 years ago with an RBS account. I had to use credit cards and borrow of friends for 2 weeks.

dunstonh

To put your complaint in context, I arranged a complaint about an insurance company some years back for incorrectly valuing a pension to being much more than it actually was. This was despite multiple checks to verify the amount and projections. The policyholder retired based on that info and moved half way across the country only to find that when they sent the paperwork in, the correct value was "found".

Whilst the correct value was what the person was entitled to they had made a load of financial decisions based on the incorrect info that they had received by phone, by post and by a rep of the insurance company. After putting in a complaint, getting it rejected (albeit apologetically) and taking it to the FOS, the FOS agreed it was a bad error and set a figure of £100 that the insurance company should pay as goodwill.

So, if you think you were hard done by and believe the FOS will consider taking a day off work as acceptable for a phone call to a provider, you wont get far.

Incidentally, the pensioner had to then do equity release as they couldnt afford to live on the revised sum on the pension and the husband fell ill and was dead within 2 years. The stress of the events in that case were worth £100. You lost your debit card for a week. He lost his retirement plans, his house and not long after his life.

I'm not belittling what happened to you but if all that was £100, what would they recommend in your case? That said, I put in another complaint on something else in July on behalf of a client and that was for a clerical error by an insurance company which cost nothing to the client and only created me any work. Last week a cheque for £200 payable to the client turned up with an apology. The error didnt deserve a £200 goodwill gesture so you never know what you will get in reality.

leviathan

Well I didn't update the thread but things actually got worse.
After the cards were cancelled I then discovered that I'd also be issued with new PIN numbers. Due to their systems (which seem ridiculous) these could not be issued at the same time as the cards which seems to be the case in most other banks but instead I had to send back a reply form once I'd received the cards to be issued with pin numbers.
Of course this took more time, but was for "security reasons".
The pin arrived in a package which anyone would guess was a pin number.
The one from other banks arrived in plain white envelopes. Security eh? :rolleyes:

To cut a long story short: I managed to get a new pin number for a Lloyds account I have (left over from advice on here about monthly saver accounts) within 3 days of asking for it and opened two new acounts with Abbey (again, cracking advice from MSE on their interest rates and nice that I can have two or more account to keep at that £2500 maximum) and received both the cards and pin's within the time it took my bank to sort themselves out which was a grand total of two weeks and a day from the time the first screw up took place.

Now everything is seemingly back to normal, however it did take a fairly ratty letter to them to get the compensation I felt was owed.
However it's good to know that in the end, so far as I'm concerned, justice is served:

http://aycu14.webshots.com/image/38333/2000045200274971924_rs.jpg

Now I have to decide whether to stick with them or leave.
To be fair, if you can put up with the hassle, it's not a bad rate of interest on a current account :cool:

Lev