Debit card Fraud

PatsyCat77

Hello!

Can I please ask for some advice on the above subject? I've had money taken from my account by Sainsbury's 3 times since March (JS Online Groceries twice & Sainsbury's S/Mkts once).  I haven't shopped online at Sainsbury's or been in a store to but any groceries or diesel.  I bank with NatWest and they refunded me on the first 2 occasions but today called me up to advise they wouldn't be refunding the 3rd amount (£230) as "I'VE allowed" it to happen 3 times.  On all occasions my cards were cancelled by NatWest and the device used for the transactions - blocked (all were iPhones).

I've also contacted Sainsbury's and each time been advised that only the bank can deal with it, I feel like I'm in an endless cycle.

NatWest told me there could be viruses on my iPad which are allowing fraudsters access to my details, but aside from this, didn't advise how to try and avoid this happening again.  My fear is this could happen today and I just keep losing money. I am getting nowhere with NatWest or Sainsbury's.

Is there anyone out there that could advise on how to stop this happening and are there any channels I could go through to get the money back?

The only things I can think of is cancelling my account with NatWest and buying a new iPad (which I don't want to do having just lost £230).

Thanks for any help.

born_again

Let me guess Nat west are saying this as they have been through VbV.
Well VbV is wrong. 
We found that it is not as you are trained to believe. You are told that the device id is the be all to end all. As all devices have their own id.
IP= Post code
Device Id = Actual house.
Yet we had a staff member who did not believe this, many of us thought something was wrong. To many people with the same issue as you.
So they used the same i-pad to make 3 purchases. Surprise was that it came back with 3 different id's.
We flagged this in and well over a year later we are still trying to get anyone in power to study it.
We did find that the id is actually a cookie based id so can easily be changed.

All you can do is get the i-pad checked by Apple (they will say it's clean) and then you will have to raise a complaint with the bank. On the fraud with that proof.
With the last 2 cases Sainsburys should have provided Nat West with a address for the orders. Is that known or local to you? If they have not ask them to get the info.

PatsyCat77

Thanks a lot for that @born_again. Sounds very sensible. I’m going to call Apple support tonight. My concern is though, that they won’t confirm the iPad is clear because it’s an old iPad (2nd generation I think) and they don’t do updates for it anymore, which is another cone!
NatWest spoke to Sainsbury’s but they never got back to them with the info. However I can see it on my bank statement that the transactions were made in West Green, LittleHampton and Bromley-on-Bow, all of which places I never been to and don’t know anyone there. 

I could get defrauded again and again whilst this is being investigated so should I perhaps close my account all together and move to another bank? I also have a joint account which never got defrauded but I don’t use it for online purchases. 

Thank you,
Ian

brianposter

Where have you used all three cards ?

eskbanker

I wonder if there's any mileage in submitting a Subject Access Request to NatWest, seeking all the data that leads them to believe that you're complicit in some way?  Normally they wouldn't release relatively low level technical data but if they're using it to assert that these transactions are yours then there's an argument that it's personal data within the scope of the Data Protection Act.

Also worth bearing in mind when logging a complaint that the onus is on the bank to prove that you did authorise transactions rather than you being required to demonstrate that you didn't.

PatsyCat77

Thanks everyone. I called Apple and they confirmed my iPad is clear of viruses and will send an email to confirm. I am going to call NatWest with this info and your suggestions. It is really annoying how unhelpful and incompetent they appear to be, yesterday they passed me around from one to another and even gave me a number to call that doesn’t exist anymore. I gave up eventually. I think I will have to close my account with them after 20 years of banking. 

@brainposter I use my card for online purchases and in shops but I never shopped at Sainsbury’s. 

brianposter

Perhaps I should have asked the question more clearly.

Is there any place or website where you have used all three cards ?

Shakin_Steve

OP, can you answer Brian's question? There is a possibility that a site you use regularly to shop could be comprised.

PatsyCat77

I don’t think I used all 3 cards in one online retailer. In store I did. That would be Morrisons and my local fish & chips shop. 

I had to log an appeal with NatWest. If they reject it, there is nothing else I can do to get my money back, they’ve said. 

Shakin_Steve

PatsyCat77 said:

I don’t think I used all 3 cards in one online retailer. In store I did. That would be Morrisons and my local fish & chips shop. 

I had to log an appeal with NatWest. If they reject it, there is nothing else I can do to get my money back, they’ve said. 

That's for the ombudsman to decide.

Chino

Financial Ombudsman Service: How to complain