A problem with boundaries

rudibryson

Hi

I know I have done wrong and this was totally unintentional however ....

We have just moved house and a farm track runs up to it.
On the right of the track as your going up was our outbuilding. Joining the outbuilding to the road was about 3 foot of grass (sloped) width that ran for around 10 feet, that we just presumed as it was the entrance of the outbuilding was ours.

We have removed the outbuilding and done around 4 months of renovation to build a stone walled car park, yesterday we completed it.

Imagine the feeling when the farmer knocks on the door and say we have encroached onto her land by 3 foot. We were actually horrified. After getting our deeds, the area is around 3 foot wide by 10 foot long. This was a grassed banking that was our access to the outbuilding and totally unusable for anything else.
We genuinely had no idea , we were certainly not trying to steal anything on purpose

I am just wondering, would our only option be to remove the section of wall that is on the land ?

Belenus

What does the farmer/owner want you to do? Has she said anything about that?

The farmer may be willing to sell you the land, or rent it to you, although she is in a position to demand far more than it is worth.

The farmer may require that strip of land for driving large vehicles with overhangs to the side along the access road and your wall may be preventing that. She may therefore not sell at any realistic price.

Is there a reason why she only approached you at the completion of the work?

Davesnave

As above, your post is all about you what you thought and wanted to do, but there is no indication of what the other party wants.

My guess is that the farmer has taught you a lesson by waiting till your work is done before asking you to reinstate the land she owns. She must feel in a strong position to do this, because apparently your/her title plan reflects all you needed to know before commencing the work.

None of us here can tell you about options. Only the farmer can do that.

twopenny

Or the farmer is wise, has waited until you have the option of a lot more work and expense and can now demand a sum of money that is non negotiable for land that was useless.

Cynical maybe but I know a lot of farmers and they're very astute.

You've offered a perfect scenario, You made a presumption and you didn't check with your neighbour before commencing work.

pramsay13

I would call her bluff.
Offer to remove the wall or to buy the bit of land for a reasonable amount. 
If she holds out for more organise to get the wall removed. 
If the land really is useless to her she will surely back down and accept whatever amount.

rudibryson

pramsay13 said:

I would call her bluff.
Offer to remove the wall or to buy the bit of land for a reasonable amount. 
If she holds out for more organise to get the wall removed. 
If the land really is useless to her she will surely back down and accept whatever amount.

The land is absolutely useless to her. the road terminates where the wall is. The road reaches our house and stops. End of road. Her concern was we have made the road narrower and therefore the turning circle smaller, so i guess she is worried for vehicles turning around (mostly delivery vehicles) and encroaching onto her field which is adjacent at the other side. However we have shown her photos that we have not touched the road at all, only removed the grass banking that was impossible to use anyway, which again was our access to our building do genuinely just thought that was ours. So the turning circle is totally not effected.
We have also made it easier for vehicles to turn around by stoning a muddy path ( that belongs to us) for vehicles to back into.

Having spoken with the wife before coming back and reading these replies we actually decided exactly what you have said. It would be a shame as the wall is a nice one !

warby68

I'm not good at imagining the layout but I think you have described her as owning land which gives access to part of your property. 
Presumably as you have walled it in you do not need that access and get to it another way but if you do or the farmer owns anything else that you need to use for access and don't have rights over be careful. I'd be obliging in case she feels the need to mark out her boundaries in some way that would be less convenient or aesthetically pleasing, now you have encroached.

rudibryson

Yes im also not too good at explaining. Its a long farm path up to the house. On the left is the farmers field, to the right are our out buildings.

The track his hers with right of access for us in deeds.

On the right was a scruffy old 30 foot asbestos building. We have removed this, and where the grass verge on the right met both the road and outbuilding, we have created a stone walled car park. So that grass verge is now the left hand side of our car park wall.

We didn't realise the grass verge that was our access to the outbuilding was hers and this is where our new stone wall runs down and creates the entrance into the car park.

This bit of land was totally not used by any one other than us. 

warby68

So the bit of land she owns STILL needs to be crossed to access your car park? Car park is an unusual turn of phrase for a house - is there a business element?
Is that bit of land covered by the right of access for the road?
I'm no expert (or even amateur) but if you have to cross her land and don't have that there might be a problem other than the wall.
Pretty sure there are some more qualified people who can comment here if I'm concerned about nothing.

rudibryson

Well the wall on the left is on the grass strip that is hers in the deeds (again i have to say we had no idea). If we were asked to remove it, then we would take it down and have a larger entrance into the car park but it certainly wouldn't look as nice. ( i say car park as its quite large thats all, not sure what else to call it, its not a drive as such) . There are no access restrictions at all.ive tried to upload 2 photos. From the aerial view,  above the white van is the outbuilding we have removed. To the left of it is a small piece of grass. This is the area in question. As you can see from the newer photo that grass area is now the lower part of the curved wall.
So the grass that was only ever used for our outbuilding entrance is now just a wall 

Davesnave

The OP would probably have had a right of access on foot to the old outbuilding, as it would be odd to own a structure with no access, or a prescriptive right could have been created over time, but if it wasn't for vehicles, then a new situation has arisen. Any new situation may be challenged if there is nothing in the deeds covering it.

For example, our neighbour has a right of access through a vehicular track in our front garden, which is defined in both our title documents. That's fine, but they couldn't just decide to alter the track and enter their land by a new route, or spur off with a footpath to cut the corner when walking.

Sometimes, a provision to cross land is written into the house deeds. We use a road owned by someone else, who also owns the verge alongside. In our case, there's a provision in the deeds to cover the situation should we need to make a new entrance across that verge. In other words, it can't be used as a ransom strip.

Only the OP knows what's written in their deeds regarding access. It's something they and their solicitor should have examined when they were buying. Whether a narrow strip of land is 'totally unused' or not, is irrelevant.